How's the spell system supposed to work? (MoM)

[tesb]

effects are applied at the end of each round afaik. so when you move a unit in range of an aura carrier it will only be affected by the aura at the end of the turn afaik (i am not so sure on this one).
can you give some examples on what effects seem consistent while others seemed bugged?

 

[Goodwill]

Still in my first game. I really enjoy many of the changes so far. Anyway, playing as amurites earthen lore, earthen mastery, and iron shirt all work great. So does fireshield, though im not sure why all the adepts have that as a default. Regen though I can't get to show up on anyone but the adepts who have it, it doesn't appear for anyone else. I thought I was having that problem with windwall too but I can't be positive and im not by the computer right now. Could it be that regen only appears in the unit window when its damaged and that im not checking for it then?

 

[tesb]

or it could be that regen is a direct aura effect (although i am not at all sure about it, i can't check this either since i am not at home). direct aura effects like valor are only shown as a promotion on the unit that has choosen this effect. other units will not get the promotion but the aura that effects them will have a text like: increases healing by x% or something like this.

it could also be true that only units that are damaged gain the promotion, sorry i can't help you on this one right now

 

[Goodwill]

Ok, just knowing now that some effects aren't distributed as visible promotions helps me understand it better and I will look more closely at the unit stats. Thanks again Tesb.

 

[DonQuigleone]

Some of the city effects caused by spells are a bit of a mystery. The pedia entries for those spells need overhauled, or at least give descriptions for the buildings constructed.

 

[Divvu]

Some of the city effects caused by spells are a bit of a mystery. The pedia entries for those spells need overhauled, or at least give descriptions for the buildings constructed.

... Well for now just save, cast, check the building and choose if it's useful

One serious question, has anyone managed to see the scorch terraform in action? In my current game I tried casting it lots of times (to get rid of marshes/tundra) but while casting rise lands or sanctify (do not remeber the exact name of the last one, the one that removes H.Lands and hell terrain) has visible effect, I still have to see a single marsh tile disappear from my realm using scorch...

 

[Tarquelne]

Some of the city effects caused by spells are a bit of a mystery. The pedia entries for those spells need overhauled, or at least give descriptions for the buildings constructed.

Yep. For now, though, at least some of buildings are showing up on the Spell Research screen. But maybe only when you get the spell-tech for the ritual that makes them. (I didn't check.)

 

[tesb]

the main reason i made not show up in the pedia was because then they would have needed new buttons, this was early in the beta and i made a ton of buttons later so i guess we can bring them back in the pedia. the only thing that needs to change befoer we do that however would be that they appear in a seperate building category and not in the same category as normal buildings.

 

[Tschuggi]

... Well for now just save, cast, check the building and choose if it's useful

One serious question, has anyone managed to see the scorch terraform in action? In my current game I tried casting it lots of times (to get rid of marshes/tundra) but while casting rise lands or sanctify (do not remeber the exact name of the last one, the one that removes H.Lands and hell terrain) has visible effect, I still have to see a single marsh tile disappear from my realm using scorch...

I got hit from it too often in my last game, I think it has been cast by malakim. It really sucks, because you end with deserts around your capital. AI uses the global enchantments and hostile terraforming vey well. Illians cover you in snow and ice, so be friendly to them.

 

[Divvu]

I got hit from it too often in my last game, I think it has been cast by malakim. It really sucks, because you end with deserts around your capital. AI uses the global enchantments and hostile terraforming vey well. Illians cover you in snow and ice, so be friendly to them.

Hehe that's not scorch ... Scorch is positive terraform, it removes Ice, Tundra and marshes in your influence. I think there is another hostile terraform, desertification or somehing similar, wich dries up your opponents land in a bad way (grass-->plain-->desert) but I still have to try an evil civ so my knowledge of dark magic is just intuition ATM

 

[Tschuggi]

Hehe that's not scorch ... Scorch is positive terraform, it removes Ice, Tundra and marshes in your influence. I think there is another hostile terraform, desertification or somehing similar, wich dries up your opponents land in a bad way (grass-->plain-->desert) but I still have to try an evil civ so my knowledge of dark magic is just intuition ATM

magari sono i pugliesi che bruciano la terra... io, come mezzo pugliese, lo posso confessare

 

[Niveras]

I like the idea of having terraforming enchancements grant your spellcasters the ability to cast those spells on specific tiles, so you can more easily control what happens during terraforming. This would be most suitable for things like tree growth (is Genesis the only source), hills, peak destruction, and raising land from ocean. Negative terraforming enhancements can still apply randomly to your enemy territory, although I wonder if there shouldn't be diplomatic limits there (for example, only applying to civs you are at war with).

 

[Divvu]

magari sono i pugliesi che bruciano la terra... io, come mezzo pugliese, lo posso confessare

Hehe no, i pugliesi sono brave persone (mezzo pugliese anche io se ti ricordi...) deve essere il lato teutonico

Sorry for the language mix-up

 

[ArkhanTheBlack]

I like the idea of having terraforming enchancements grant your spellcasters the ability to cast those spells on specific tiles, so you can more easily control what happens during terraforming. This would be most suitable for things like tree growth (is Genesis the only source), hills, peak destruction, and raising land from ocean. Negative terraforming enhancements can still apply randomly to your enemy territory, although I wonder if there shouldn't be diplomatic limits there (for example, only applying to civs you are at war with).

That's the normal way it was done in FFH2. No idea why that was changed.
I really wonder why so many things had to be changed that were never broken and worked perfectly before.

 

[Tarquelne]

I really wonder why so many things had to be changed that were never broken and worked perfectly before.

I like the new way better. Especially if it's biased toward worked squares.

 

[Divvu]

I like the new way better. Especially if it's biased toward worked squares.

I can understand you, but have you tried using erosion/rise lands in your games? Found some actual uses for them?
Because in my experience peaks and ocean tiles are simply too delicate to let a random function deal with them...
I could agree with you that the current system is a lot less tedious for blooming/removing deserts/tundra, but those other spells should be either removed or reworked, just an opinion, mind you.
Hope I didn't sound rude!

 

[Goodwill]

I think it would be cool if it worked like a bts nuke... select a tile and terraform it and a radius of surrounding tiles in the direction you want. Even if it's just a % chance to terraform each tile, it would still give you a degree of control. Same could be better and more limiting/targeted/balanced in hostile terraforming.

 

[Tarquelne]

I can understand you, but have you tried using erosion/rise lands in your games? Found some actual uses for them?

I've never had the option to cast them.

But they both make sense for the mapscript I've been playing, Erebus.

There's often a lot of peaks wasting space in my territories. And occasionally I might like to open up a new pass to invade my enemy. And visa versa. It'd be really nice to pick just where I want peaks removed, but I don't mind it as a "Pay your money and take your chances." spell.

One also seems to get trapped with a small territory bordered by water fairly often. Raise Land could help. You might even build a bridge to another landmass. Here the randomness seems less of a factor: The point is more territory. Exactly where shouldn't matter too much. (Unless you're going for that bridge.)

I'm glad Sephi's going to try making the less-usefull terraforming rituals more-useful. But if the choice were between the current system, as is, and the old terraforming system: I'd still take the new one.

****

The terraforming costs don't seem as prohibitively expensive to me as they once did. I've gotten used to casting when I don't think I'll need the mana for mage-casting, and remind myself that the +3 mana/turn will turn to +12/turn (or whatever) as soon as the spell is cast.

 

[Divvu]

I'm glad Sephi's going to try making the less-usefull terraforming rituals more-useful. But if the choice were between the current system, as is, and the old terraforming system: I'd still take the new one.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm with you here, I too prefer the current system
Terraforming as global action works REALLY good imho, the only exception are those spells that alter the nature of the map.

In your example map, Erebus, removing "this" or "that" peak should have a great impact (are you aiming to open up that nice inhabitated valley? Too bad you just opened up your mountain passes on the other side, allowing enemies to pour in...) and rise lands do not form "bridges", in my experience it simply rises clustered tiles, so when I use it, more often than not, I end up losing acces to the sea in a random coastal city.

That's why I was asking if you found some use for them

 

[Tarquelne]

and rise lands do not form "bridges",

I mean in the sense that land masses may be so close together that a new cluster forms a bridge.

in my experience it simply rises clustered tiles, so when I use it, more often than not, I end up losing acces to the sea in a random coastal city.

Yeah, it'd make a great hostile spell. Probably too great.
With Erosion I think the risk of the spell is fine. I'll go so far as to say I like it that way. But I do agree about Rising Land at least so far as to say it's use, while existent, is pretty narrow.

Maybe alter it to only (or prefer) raising land outside a city's radius?

I suppose a pathfinding routine could check each existing city for blocking access to the sea, though that may be asking for too much.