HRY4 - Russian Roulette

[KaNick]

Originally posted by Hooray
Oh what the heck, I'll let you both join. Welcome aboard, mitsho and GrandMasta Nick!

Thanks, I've been meaning to play the Russians on C3C but haven't had the chance as I just got the game. I think that at least one AI civ will lose their capital, and possibly they may be wiped out. In almost all of my games in C3C at least one AI city was destroyed.

 

[barbslinger]

Can't you just sic an archer on it and make it a mountain? In GOTM 27 - America I had to tame one of those beasts.

 

[grahamiam]

Originally posted by barbslinger
Can't you just sic an archer on it and make it a mountain? In GOTM 27 - America I had to tame one of those beasts.

Nope. Volcano's are terrain in C3C, not a "Crackered" unit. IIRC, you only get an 80% defensive bonus vs 100% on mountains.

Nice opening Betazed. At least I know my 1st SG will last a while.

Chopping/mining the game will give us a 3F, 1S square? If so, then this will definitely be a nice settler pump. From what I can see on the map we will have the following @ size 5:

2 mined BG: 2F, 2S, 1G each (4F, 4S, 2G total)
1 mined game grass: 3F, 1S, 1G
Irrigated river cow: 4F, 1S, 2G
1 mined grass: 2F, 1S, 1G
capitol square: 2F, 1S, 2G

Total food: 15
Total shields: 7 (8-1 for corruption?)

No temple expansion required.

Sorry for the math but I don't recall coming across a game square at a potential pump site before and I want to make sure I understand how it's going to work.

Thanks.

 

[Corrado]

Er... got it.

While Moscow is no longer our primary city, I'm interpreting the rules as abandoning it would count as a Palace Jump, which is an exploit. If someone later wants to countermand that, fine, but I'm not going to leave it just yet.

3000 BC (1)

2950 BC (2) Moscow Scout->Worker

2900 BC (3) Pop a hut for 25 gold.

2850 BC (4) Spy furs to our north.

2800 BC (5) Lux to 20%.

2750 BC (6)

2710 BC (7) Moscow worker->scout. St. Pete Granary->Settler.

Discover the Arabs, who have The Wheel. Trade Alphabet and 28 gold for The Wheel. Find Horses directly outside St. Pete. Woot!

2670 BC (8) Pop a hut for 25 gold. Discover that the hut is right next to a loose barbarian.

IBT: Barb kills our scout.

2630 BC (9)

2590 BC (10) Lux to 30% to keep up with St. Pete growth.

Okay, that's it for me. Someone else gets to pick it up and send out our settler. I really suggest someplace that will get us a luxury, and those places abound.


Dosvedanya!

 

[grahamiam]

i'll get to it right now.

 

[Hooray]

Eh heh, I didn't expect that strategy. You're treating Moscow as if it's as good as dead already. It's probably a smart move, but we'll see.

Corrado: Yes, no abandoning of the capital. Not entirely because of the Palace Jump exploit, but also because it was my intention that we have to have our capital next to the volcano. No moving of the Palace at all, I say, until the volcano has erupted at least once.

 

[grahamiam]

Ok, here's my 1st try:

Pre-turn check: With the game irrigated, St. Pete's will produce 15F and 8S @ size 5 (need 2 mined BG, irr. Cattle, irr game, and forrest). I sure hope we don't get -1 corruption @ size 5. Unit count: 1 scout, 2 workers, 1 conscript warrior.

IBT: Nothing

1. 2550 BC
2Workers mine grass, scout moves NE, next to Barb camp!

IBT: Barbs move away from Scout! Note: This is the southern scout and I renamed him "Scout1"

2. 2510 BC
Moscow scout2 -> warrior adjust slider to keep St. Pete's happy (-1g) Scout1 (southern) E,E sees mountain gems: Scout2 (Moscow) SE, S,S,S Parks next to a barb (maybe he'll get lucky too!). Switch preference to slow down movement

IBT: Barb kills Scout2 (RIP)

3. 2470 BC
Scout1 E, SE to hill; MM St. Pete's for extra research gold

IBT: nothing (barb south of us fortifies)

4. 2430 BC
St. Petes, Settler -> warrior; Move workers to roaded BG, Settler & conscript warrior go E towards silks; Scout1 E,E; MM Moscow off mined BG to regular BG. MM St. Petes off horse to mined BG (warrior in 2); Adjust slider for St. Pete (-1gpt)

5. 2390 BC
2 Workers mine bonus grass, settler & warrior move SE, Scout1 moves E, NE, sees goody hut N of inland lake, MM St. Pete's & Moscow so Moscow has cow and St. Pete has roaded BG, adjust slider for St. Pete unhappyness (-1g)

6. 2350 BC
Moscow warrior -> warrior; St. Pete's warrior -> settler; adjust slider; Settler & Warrior SE (sees wheat SE,S from spot); Moscow warrior SE, S, S to challenge barb; Scout1 NE, N towards hut

7. 2310 BC
MM Moscow & St Pete's so Petes grows in 2T. Bad news, St. Pete's makes 6spt (7-1 for corruption) with the forrest being used. The game and the horses must be mined for a 4T settler pump to work here (I think, though maybe not).
Novgorod founded on the forest next to the inland lake. Novgorod set to build scout. Regular warrior defeats barb (-2hp). Scout1 NW pops hut and we get Warrior Code, then moves NE.

Trades: Only Korea down WC. Will offer 56g I will wait 1 turn to see if they are researching it


8. 2270 BC
2 Workers finish mine, move SE, E to horses; Wounded warrior fortifies. Scout E, E to hill

Trades: Korea still offering only 56g for WC. I decide to take it since they will probably buy it from Carthage soon.

9. 2230 BC
2 Workers mine horse grass. St. Pete's may be ok as is. Will have to check after 1st settler built., Scout1 S to mountain

10. 2190 BC
Moscow warrior -> warrior, Moscow warrior moves to St. Pete's, slider adjusted; Warrior1 south of St. Pete's is healed and moves S; Scout1 SE, S to hill. St. Pete's settler due in 1T, growth due in 1T

Trades: Arabs have a worker in Capitol but we only have 95g and can't buy him.


I don't think St. Pete's can be a 4T settler pump right now but I am not 100% sure due to the corruption wildcard. I believe we have to mine the game and then work the mined horse instead of the forrest. This will give us 15fpt (+5fpt) and 7spt, with the computer kindly switching over to the forrest when we grow to size 6 and we MM to a grass.

Unit Count: 1 Scout, 4 Warriors, 2 Workers. 1 Settler due in 1 turn, 1 Scout due in 2 turns. I recommend Novgorod builds a worker next and St. Pete's stays with the settlers.
We have 3 cities and 95 gold in the bank (making -1gpt )

Here's the

save

 

[grahamiam]

Originally posted by grahamiam
Ok, here's my 1st try:

I don't think St. Pete's can be a 4T settler pump right now but I am not 100% sure due to the corruption wildcard. I believe we have to mine the game and then work the mined horse instead of the forrest. This will give us 15fpt (+5fpt) and 7spt, with the computer kindly switching over to the forrest when we grow to size 6 and we MM to a grass.


On second thought, this setup should be ok. At size 5, St. Pete's makes 7spt (8 -1 corruption). With the horse mined and at size 6, we will make 8gpt (9 -1 corruption). This will give us 30 shields and 20 gold in 4 turns. Now, we just need Moscow or Novgorod to keep supplying escorts...

Sorry, forgot to post a screen shot

 

[gozpel]

The game should be mined, not irrigated, when pop occurs we get the 2 shields from the forest as "bonus"

Funny placement of Novgorod, 1 tile SE would have pulled in the wheat as well. But a city is a city

I got it.

 

[gozpel]

The Save


Pre-turn - Someone missed a turn, this should be 2150 bc, not 2190 bc.
St Petes is pop 6 and this is a 4-turn settler factory already and I won't mine the game. We don't have to MM every second turn. Next time I'll shut up until I've seen the save

Scroll through the 3 cities, MM Moscow so it grows next turn and change production to worker. I can see the Arabian worker for sale, but I don't want to pay 2 gpt and 80g.

2150 bc - St Petes settler -> settler. Have to raise luxtax to 50% because of Moscow, but only for 2 turns. Get 2 extra shields by using the volcano.
Send settler down S to the wheat. Warrior S and is next to GH. Scout climbs a mountain and spots blue borders.
Move conscript out of Novgorod for some mountain scouting.
Move a warrior out of St Petes to scout west, he finds game.

2110 bc - We meet the Sumerians, they are up Mysticism and have 81g. Well, our warrior trips GH and we learn mysticism!
Novgorod scout -> warrior. New scout E.
Conscript finds only a carthagian warrior in the mountains. Workers finished mine on horse, one worker road, the other sent SE.

2070 bc - Moscow worker -> warrior.
Carthage has a worker for sale, since Sumeria already knows Myst I trade it to Hannibal for the worker and 75g. He goes from cauthious to polite. (I hope buying one worker isn't against any rules?)

2030 bc - Rostov founded -> worker. Another worker will road towards the new city.

1990 bc - St Petes settler -> settler. Settler sent E towards dyes. Horses are connected.
Find barbcamp W of Moscow. Another barb shows up near Rostov, have to move warrior back to city.

1950 bc - Nothing much, use the volcano in Moscow for a turn to finish warrior one turn earlier. Move workers to connect silks.

1910 bc - Moscow warrior - warrior. Novgorod warrior -> scout.
I send a warrior to St Petes and science/lux is back to 60/40 - Writing in 9 turns.
The other warrior goes E the settler.
Scout meets an Indian settler, we are up the Wheel and Myst and Ghandi only have 25g.

1870 cb - Warrior attacks barbcamp and loses.

1830 bc - St Petes settler -> settler, send him W.
Yaroslavl founded -> warrior. This town will need a temple to grab the dyes. So warrior, worker then temple.
Scout next to GH.

1790 bc - Silks are online!
Scout gets maps from GH.
Carthage knows HBR.

1750 bc - Nothing really. I played an extra turn to get an even date.

Settler pair is in place. Next settler should go N to get the fur. The another southish to get the gems. We can never have enough luxuries and 4 is more than expected.
There is actually wines a bit west as well, are we greedy enough for that?

Writing in 4 turns at -1gpt. We have 161g.

 

[gozpel]

Mighty Russia.

 

[mitsho]

Aren't 7 players too many? It doesn't make much sense. So, if YOU want, you can count me out.

the game seems nice, but I don't think we have to go to the tundra to get the furs now! We don't need this happines now, do we? And no AI will come and settle that place before us!

mfG mitsho

 

[grahamiam]

Originally posted by gozpel
Funny placement of Novgorod, 1 tile SE would have pulled in the wheat as well. But a city is a city

Sorry, my bad. I guess I was thinking that I didn't want all those mountains in our city radius. But now that I think about it, the wheat would have been worth it.

 

[betazed]

Originally posted by grahamiam


Sorry, my bad. I guess I was thinking that I didn't want all those mountains in our city radius. But now that I think about it, the wheat would have been worth it.

Don't worry about it that much. We'll get the wheat after all when the border expands.

However, in one of the pics above i see that a tile WNW of St. Petersburg has been mined but not roaded! That wastes two worker turns.

Also why are we selling the techs so cheaply. If we had not sold Myst to Carthage so cheap would it have been possible to get HBR from him for it later?

I follow a simple policy, unless there are hugely mitigating reasons. Never sell anything to the AI cheap because it is never going to sell cheap to you.

 

[Hooray]

mitsho: I don't see the problem with having so many players.
Also, we *do* need to grab the tundra luxes. Well, maybe not *need*, but they'll certainly help with only one (or two?) content citizens on Emperor level. Plus, they'll save us money from lux taxes.

EDIT: Just noticed that we have four luxes nearby?! I haven't had more than two in a long while. This is great.

Everything's looking pretty good so far, guys!
It looks like mitsho is up next, with GrandMasta Nick on deck.

 

[grahamiam]

Originally posted by betazed

However, in one of the pics above i see that a tile WNW of St. Petersburg has been mined but not roaded! That wastes two worker turns.

I moved the worker to the second BG so it could be mined in 4 turns (would have taken 5 turns if I roaded 1st, then moved). This allowed me to mine the horse grass and finish just as St. Pete's was finishing it's first settler in the 1st pump cycle.

In hindsight, I probably should have finished the road 1st like you suggested, though. The grass would have finished just as the pop in St. Pete's expanded to 6. I think the irrigated game threw me into a loop

Also, can anyone generate a dot map for city placement? I think we can see enough land now and it would be helpful for all.

 

[gozpel]

And the carthagian worker we got by selling Mysticism "cheap" roaded that tile

My thoughts that we are we on our way to Writing and ~200g for Myst isn't that bad. Sumeria already knew Myst as well, so buying a Monopoly tech from the AI takes more than that and HBR isn't a vital tech.

If the settler pair continues 4-5 tiles thery could actually grab those wines first, that would give us 5 luxes. A second settler could go straight for the gems and others backfill.

 

[grahamiam]

Originally posted by gozpel
And the carthagian worker we got by selling Mysticism "cheap" roaded that tile

My thoughts that we are we on our way to Writing and ~200g for Myst isn't that bad. Sumeria already knew Myst as well, so buying a Monopoly tech from the AI takes more than that and HBR isn't a vital tech.

If the settler pair continues 4-5 tiles thery could actually grab those wines first, that would give us 5 luxes. A second settler could go straight for the gems and others backfill.

IMHO, i thought it was a nice trade , i love slave labor, especially this early when the budget is so tight. just checing with tech calc, myst was worth 102g so i think we made out extremely well.

also, i like the idea of lux grabbing (wines & gems) but we ought to be sure we have enough pointy sticks to deter carthage & korea from taking offense. we'll need a rax and unit pump (10spt) soon.

research wise, are we going for philosophy to get the free tech? if so, what is the prefered free tech?

 

[KaNick]

Actually Mitsho, you can stay. I have to bow out. I'm just too busy as of late and 7 players is too many.

 

[mitsho]

hmm, ok, so I'll play now! puhh....

literature for free tech?

mfG mitsho