Huge Earth TSL Map

[Linklite]

I know it's largely speculative at the moment, but I wanted to know your thoughts regarding this map. How big do you think it will be? Feel free to use any country or feature as reference, but I'm curious about the size of Wales - in the current one, it literally doesn't exist, it's tile is taken up by the Irish sea! I understand why, but I think it'll get at least one hex this time around.

Which civs do you think will benefit most from it? I'd think the Australians woukd do very well - they have the entirety of Australia to themselves. I guess Indonesia might encroach a bit, but to my memory, everyone else shares.

Who will be the worst? Do you think that Europe will be a no-go in a completely randomised roster? Or will there be enough space that you might not get defeated by loyalty issues?

How often are you going to play it? How tightly are you going to control which civs will be present? Do you think that they'll change it so we can use the leader pools on TSL maps?

 

[comatosedragon]

How big do you think it will be?

Huge maps in Civ 6 are 106*66 tiles. I doubt they will alter that.

Do you think that they'll change it so we can use the leader pools on TSL maps?

I really hope so. Mildly pointless otherwise.

 

[Gedemon]

They could maybe push it to 128*80 (civ5 "huge", IIRC some of the current script already have "custom" value for some sizes, and fixed maps can have those too) but that's the current engine limit, unless they've finally worked on that. And even at that size, I still think it's too small for an Earth Map.

 

[Conquistador_514]

I've never tried the TSL map yet because it was painfully obvious that the map was hopelessly unbalanced and small with European nations becoming little more than city states and African Nations becoming Huge empires, Maybe There will be enough room this time and with carefully picked leaders a good close game might be possible.

 

[TreVor_ish]

Playing on Earth and being able to choose a Civilization that would rule over the world, is something I really enjoyed once in a while (times when even beyond 200 in width was stable). So yeah I'm looking forward to try it out. I just hope it's not just a regular huge size. (this would actually not surprise me, given not only PC has to be able to not only render it, but also calculate everything in late game)

 

[Buktu]

Do you think that they'll change it so we can use the leader pools on TSL maps?

I think Ed Beach already twitterd that he uses leader pools on the new TSL Earth map, so I guess we will be able to use it.

Edit: Link to the tweet.

 

[Equilin]

I played Giant Earth Ynaemp in Civ5 and i still think it's too small. With Civ6 where cities use up tons of tiles i don't think it will ever be big enough.

 

[kryat]

My estimate is that Java will go from 2 tiles to 4 tiles. Japan will go from 6 tiles to 9 tiles. It’s still not really enough. I’ve found zoomed in local maps to be much more enjoyable to play, so I’m looking forward to the Mediterranean map most.

 

[aieeegrunt]

I've never tried the TSL map yet because it was painfully obvious that the map was hopelessly unbalanced and small with European nations becoming little more than city states and African Nations becoming Huge empires, Maybe There will be enough room this time and with carefully picked leaders a good close game might be possible.

You have to leave North and South America and Africa empty to get anything approaching history.

Civ6 is far far too wide focused to be remotely historical unless you have a map scale where major European nations can have at least 4 cities without loyalty issues

Of course at that point you have to unblob India.

And you still have to make Tall viable

At least you’d need District Equivelant city centre buildings

 

[Nassim]

Which civs do you think will benefit most from it? I'd think the Australians woukd do very well - they have the entirety of Australia to themselves. I guess Indonesia might encroach a bit, but to my memory, everyone else shares.

Who will be the worst? Do you think that Europe will be a no-go in a completely randomised roster? Or will there be enough space that you might not get defeated by loyalty issues?

How often are you going to play it? How tightly are you going to control which civs will be present? Do you think that they'll change it so we can use the leader pools on TSL maps?

I love TSL once in a while, but you pretty much have to handpick civs to make sure it's balanced. With a very customizable pool it would be better (say, force the game to have 3 american civs, 2 european ones, 2 middle east, 3 from the rest of asian/oceanian and 2 african or something like that) but with the current pools, you'd be too likely to have a very crowded Europe, Middle East and possibly South East Asia, and more space elsewhere (which, depending on the difficulty, can be either a big help for European civs as you can conquer neighbors early or a big hindrance as early aggression is guaranteed).

In any case, sub-saharan countries should still have enough space each I think, Scythia should be relatively fine too.

 

[Henri Christophe]

I've never tried the TSL map yet because it was painfully obvious that the map was hopelessly unbalanced and small with European nations becoming little more than city states and African Nations becoming Huge empires, Maybe There will be enough room this time and with carefully picked leaders a good close game might be possible.

that is the why is needed more african civs and less europeans civs

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

that is the why is needed more african civs and less europeans civs

Not necessarily, but I see your point.

 

[PiR]

that is the why is needed more african civs and less europeans civs

I think we can find better reasons than a TSL map but this thread is about the map so I won't get into this debate
If I'm not mistaken, in Africa we have 2 western civs, 1 southern, 3 eastern. Probably also CS to fill some gaps? And the eastern ones will be very close to Arabia. So the whole of Africa could be filled very, very quickly.

There are so many questions in the OP... let's carefully answer EACH.

How big do you think it will be?

The max technically possible!

I'm curious about the size of Wales - in the current one, it literally doesn't exist, it's tile is taken up by the Irish sea! I understand why, but I think it'll get at least one hex this time around.

That depends on the approach of designing the map. A "fatty earth" could give Wales 5 tiles:

Spoiler :

If someone is gonna hate this map and call it eurocentric, please, it's just for the sake of the argument here.

So I believe that even with such an adjustment (which may not have been done at all, it's very possible the map is more looking like that for example), loyalty will be tough on many civ.

Which civs do you think will benefit most from it?

I agree that Australia could have a sweet defensible spot, but Brazil could also do very well. That all depends on what size will be given each continent and what terrains. I Australia is mostly deserts... so so.
India, China, Russia could be global superpowers. And Aztecs could rush the US/Canada and have all of North America for themselves.

Who will be the worst?

Dutch? Portugal? Phoenicia?

Do you think that Europe will be a no-go in a completely randomised roster?

Europe will be crazy. Imagine Madrid-Rome-Athens, and no more mediterranean coast available.
Imagine Paris-London-Amsterdam-Berlin-Varsaw-Moscow and you'll get into the World War a few millenia sooner than what really happened.
Even worse if you add Geneva and Cardiff!
Even worse if... you add Gaul??? *

Or will there be enough space that you might not get defeated by loyalty issues?

Impossible to have enough space in Europe, but even in the Middle-East, it can be very tough. Hey, even Ethiopia-Nubia-Egypt-Arabia-Babylon-Turkey-Byzantium-Greece, there's not even a spot for the CS of Jerusalem I'm afraid? and towards the east it's also very crowded

How often are you going to play it?

It depends how much the community will build around. If a mod getting us close to RFC gets out there, I could play only that from now on.
*wakes up* almost never actually because unless Napoleon is back having more than one city will very quickly break the gameplay immersion. I cannot found my second city on another country, it's too soon.

How tightly are you going to control which civs will be present?

With a mod like Historical spawns, maybe we could let all/most of them be present.
*That mod would be totally required to have Gaul, right?

Do you think that they'll change it so we can use the leader pools on TSL maps?

They have to or we'll knock on their twitter door for sure!!

 

[Shadowstrike]

A huge part of why there are so many European civs is just the way history shook out though. There are lots of pairs of civilizations that might have otherwise been viewed as single entities had political unions held. If the HRE had come together like the other kingdoms, we wouldn't have the distinction between Dutch/German, if the Iberian Union held, we wouldn't have Spanish/Portuguese, if the Kalmar Union held, we wouldn't have Norway/Sweden. I mean the game also has England/Scotland, which have been politically united for 300 years (and in a personal union for a century before that). Canada/US is much the same way. And if you go back even further in time and imagine if Rome had stayed united, or reunified, we might just have a single giant European civilization (which is exactly the case with China).

I think a good case could be made about defining more civilizations on the Indian subcontinent though. A lot of its regions have very distinct local identities and histories, and you might imagine the Tamils, Bengalis, Marathas, Punjabis, etc. being represented as their own civilizations.

 

[blackbutterfly]

They could maybe push it to 128*80

Here's hoping they fix the bug relating to huge(+) map sizes.

Regardless, I am one of those TSL enthusiasts they speak of, so I'm most looking forward to this map (and the Mediterranean) in the Apr update.

 

[kryat]

I think it's also worth mentioning that part of the reason Europe is so crowded is because Europe is geographically small. There's definitely a Euro-centric overrepresentation in who made it into the game, but it looks doubly as bad because all of Europe is about the same size as China, the US, or Canada, and is only 30% larger than Australia or Brazil. By comparison, it's 60% the size of SA, 40% the size of NA, 33% the size of Africa, and 22% the size of Asia. Not all of that is overrepresentation though. Some of it is just because more of those continents are relatively uninhabitable. So on the TSL map, that means there ends up being many, many civilizations crammed into a small region.

As a side note it does make it all the more impressive that some people groups did manage in inhospitable environments, like Vietnam, Mali, Inca, Scythia, Mongolia, etc...

 

[blackbutterfly]

As a side note it does make it all the more impressive that some people groups did manage in inhospitable environments, like Vietnam, Mali, Inca, Scythia, Mongolia, etc...

You forget those from the cradle of civilization - Egypt, Babylon, etc.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Europe is about the same size as China, the US, or Canada, and is only 30% larger than Australia or Brazil

Except for China and Canada, all other 3, US, Australia and Brazil just have one civ per territory. Don't have Brazilians native americans neither USA native americans and also neither Australians aborigenes.

 

[PiR]

So on the TSL map, that means there ends up being many, many civilizations crammed into a small region.

Then the TSL map should reflect it by good yields allowing to have pop growth in a small territory? yummy! i love yields

 

[epiplexis]

Am I seeing right that there's a large landmass in the North Atlantic in the map icon?