• 📚 A new project from the admin: Check out PictureBooks.io, an AI storyteller that lets you build custom picture books for kids in seconds. Let me know what you think here!

Huge Map Challenge No 1

Earthling

Deity
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
8,518
Hello fellow civilization players! The purpose of this thread is an open, single-player challenge centered around the Huge mapsize. This is one of many preferences that is quite split among our forum community, and I've found a dearth of strategy-related articles and games for it. Unfortunately I know that many civvers face trouble with larger maps because of computer limitations, and my sympathies go out to you. Many others already prefer these maps for their larger scale and epic feel of the game. But whether you routinely play Huge maps, or don't, I still welcome you to participate in this challenge. I'd also like to inform everyone that I could start off the post with the first save with some discussion of strategy and differences in the game for Huge maps if players would feel this is helpful; or if you're not familiar enough at all with them feel free to ask as we decide on how to get the game going.

The first introductory business is describing the type of settings intended for this challenge. As will be mentioned below, I have not fully decided on everything because I think the input of interested players will be necessary. However, some facts about the game will be obvious:

The game will be played in the latest BtS patch, 3.17 (I fully support whatever can be done compatibility wise with BUG and all, if there are any problems, we'll see when we get started). The challenge will be single player on a Huge Map, with default # of civs (11). Most custom settings I think should be default - huts, barbarians, vassals and the like.

Now, for the interesting parts. In line with the purpose of keeping this game a challenge, I'd like to warn everyone that the preferable game Difficulty is Deity. Immortal may also be doable if enough players strongly prefer this or we decide on some other more specific strategies or settings. I do not desire to exclude players of any level, of course, but I also don't want a game that is too much of a guaranteed win or loss. At the highest level it may be very likely that fewer will win if the map isn't so good; but losses can be just as entertaining and informative. Regardless, only one difficulty will be offered in the starting save - but please still feel free to play and compare strategies with everyone. At the very least, we could hope to gain experience for future Huge map games!

Likewise, the two other most important game settings (and those I'd be more willing to vary) are the Mapscript and Game Speed. The map will be a "world" map that is not a pangea, but beyond that I'm open to adjusting to players preferences. Continents, Tectonics, Fractal, Big and Small among standard maps and even scripts like PerfectWorld, which I've heard good things about, are doable. As far as speed goes, the only balanced choices I think are Epic and Normal, and I leave this open to everyone's preference again; I tend to find Epic most appropriate to Huge maps myself because of the time needed to move/explore.

Finally, I would also encourage anyone who has input on a choice of leader to speak up. I would be fine with going pretty much random; again I would really like to make a challenge for everyone, but also a game with possibilities that are acceptable to different people's playing styles.. So depending on settings/difficulty we do have a choice and I welcome good ideas. The best of all options in my opinion would be if someone could generate a game and play out the early turns (not revealing info) to ensure the game is reasonable once we have decided, and then otherwise anything goes. But I'm willing to take a shot in the dark too with everyone else if it comes to that.

Lastly, my proposed timeframe for this game is getting it started by the upcoming weekend. As I don't have much experience running such series I always welcome suggestions from those with more experience; however I don't think this game should be done with some variant like succession style; everyone is free to play out there own game. As always, I don't feel it's appropriate to be completely stringent in an open game with things like reloads if you face a loss but wanted to try out something else; the game will be challenging enough as it is. Given the nature of a Huge map I also would like to not rush people so be forewarned that posting on things too far into the game will probably be discouraged, at least for the first checkpoint of people's exploration/meeting civs.

One final thing, actually, is that I do have one proposal to toss out for players who may be too intimidated by the proposed challenge, difficulty and all.
Spoiler :
If we choose Immortal, I'd be interested, and hope others would too, in the sake of friendly competition to have players commit to a certain broad playing style pre-game. Something along the lines of FEUSS (CE)/PARCS (SE) or a division on intended victory conditions - the point is obviously to play out and familiarize yourself with Huge map strategies. This would likely give more similarities between games, so even players who face a loss or don't do so well can see the same strategies develop and encourage others. But in the end of course I'm encourage input on what players would find most fun, so this idea is by no means a requirement either.


Thanks in advance to all interested players!

Edit: For all interested players: the opening save is posted on the middle of page 2, or around post 25ish.
 
Only just started toying around with Immortal but Emperor is quickly becoming a cake walk. While Immortal would be more inviting I'd give Deity a shot. I used to lose on Noble so losing on deity can't be any more frustrating than that. I'd be game to try this with any strategy, with any leader, on any map type as long as its epic and not normal. Normal on huge maps is just aggravating. Even with tons of roads I find earlier than industrial war mobilization takes too long for my liking.
 
i'd say fractal or Tectonic :) free to choose speed and level (i'd personally proberly take a stab at Marathon Monarch) ... how about starting with a fairly strightforward leader such as Hatty?
 
Good idea. I prefer deity difficulty normal speed. To make the game a bit easier you could use a B&S map and put in 18 civs. I used to play huge, 18 civs in the distant past on immortal, it was fun and definitely a bit easier than a standard format because you can milk the other civs for techs and gold.

On deity the risk of an early dow might be too big though so maybe stick with 11. B&S ensures profitable early trade routes, there often is some room to expanding.
 
Immortal is way above my paygrade, but I always play huge maps. Love em. Normal speed is way too fast though, has to be epic. And 11 civs seems a little light unless you get a very watery world. I'd probably do 14 civs.

Any world map works out pretty well, but I enjoy custom continents with 3-5 continents. If you guys get this going and wouldn't mind a monarch player I just might shadow, otherwise I'd love to watch!
 
Huge maps are awesome, but my comp can't handle them. I'm surprise people even play huge maps on normal speed. Can you even explore the map before the game is over. Huge maps to me should be done on marathon. But i'm a fan of marathon :).
 
HUGE!!! Yes!~!!!! :D

Deity/Immortal?? :cry:

I always play huge maps. i just like a bigger world with more civs in play. After trying a huge I have NEVER gone back to standard size. A world that small just seems so artificial.

I posted a thread about some differences between playing HUGE vs. STANDARD sizes awhile back. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=295384

It's only for Monarch level play but worth a look if you've never tried HUGE before. I'm not Deity or Immortal yet but I will follow the games in the thread with interest.
 
Please feel welcome to play too - there's not going to be one "main" game to shadow - everyone can play out their own. As far as the number of civs go I'd really, really like to keep it lower - 12 or 13 is pushing it (though I do grant 60% land is probably more ok with this than 70%). This is due to the fact that in general more civs tends to make the game easier - you have less problems with barbarians, the AI doesn't take over so much land (more AI generally mean you can manipulate them/trade-monger/push them around easier). So I agree with Dirk this makes things easier - I'd rather tone the difficulty down than overcrowd the map. Also it's been my experience that the AI love to split off colonies as well, so starting the game with too many seems to me like it would just lead to insanities of 20+ civs...

And for you monarch players out there, I certainly don't want to exclude you, so maybe there's some compromise that would work out so we don't have a dozen different versions of the game. It should still be a challenge... if we decide on a solid Immortal setting I'd really like everyone to try that, even if you lose (and again no worry with folks trying different strategies/reloading). But I'm thinking now that if we get enough wanting to play Deity it would be reasonable to put up a save around Emperor-level too, it would be more fair. And huge maps tend to, in my opinion, lead to a little more depth/player emotion to the game, so even at different difficulties we'd still all face the same discoveries, dealings and war with the AI. Don't be afraid to take on a challenge!

Finally, I guess it is a good time to mention some of the factors that differ on Huge maps from others, having varying effects on gameplay. For one, rushes are generally harder because you don't start so close together as some smaller maps. However, this is doubly compounded at higher difficulties because the AI can expand faster than you and will, making full use of their bonuses. For everyone, technology costs are also more expensive on Huge maps! (20-25% I think, have to check). This is most significant by far in the early game, because you still just have your capital/a couple of cities, but your worker techs and all take a couple of turns longer than a normal map. Finally, Huge maps have resources less clumped together - you're both less likely to find a ton of resources at each city site, and you have to travel further to different latitudes for different resource types. So these are some of the challenges to consider with the map type/difficulty I guess. Thanks for the input so far everyone.

Edit, good link Hereditary Rule. And again I'll do what I can to encourage/give a fair chance for everyone to participate!
 
Huge maps are fun. :) There's always someone to conquer, and when it is not, the world is usually a big radioactive desert.
I also think tectonics algorythm shines with huge size. As for difficulty, i would be extremely anxious to observe (and try) an Immortal game. I'll most probably lose one, but the more interest to see how it can be won.
 
I tried generating a few tectonics maps to see what all the fuss is about and I have to say...wow that is a lot of water... really small amounts of land doesn't make the game fun imo, especially from a domination perspective. too much land = too tedious; too little land = too easy
 
60% water is generally better IMO for Tectonics. If we wanted with this setting to bump up the # of civs to 12 or 13 I'd be ok with that. Tectonics always tends to generate some "snaky" landmasses but if the map has normal ones too then I'm ok with that - and most often these are actually in a "New World" situation anyway. Unlike Continents, where often there's just two or three so you can play the game without a navy and just deal with your own continent, Tectonics will require sea-based stuff, but it's also not too much like archipelago. For what it's worth I like for Tectonics, randomness is ok in a map, and the most important thing is the first few cities or so anyway (don't run into Monty 10 tiles away or something).

As far as leader choices go, I just came across a good one I think, in my random map generation to look at some tectonics. I'm not really picky at all but I have some reasons why Survaryaman of the Khmer might be a good choice to consider:

Expansive/Creative are fine traits for expansion, but otherwise don't force the player into any other playstyle (SE/CE/wonders). His UU is decent if we can get ivory; at the very least it should help greatly in being safe from AI attacks in the mid-game. The UB is also fine, an aqueduct with a free food, not too complicated at all.

Finally if anyone was wondering my preference for speed it's Epic - the only other choice is Normal, Marathon is imbalanced with regards to units so not this game. Difficulty we have more choices and I'm not making the decision alone; so far I could like both options of having a Deity game and offering Emperor for those whom that would give a good challenge; or having an Immortal game for everyone (and with this encouraging players to give a go at different playstyles for everyone to learn from).
 
I hear a lot of this on the forums, but never understood the reasoning. Is it just because the units are x2 hammer cost for x3 the speed?

Yes, along with their insane movement relative to other speeds, the free military academy in all cities is pretty crazy.
 
The AI really sucks at war and if you are first to say mt and cuirasser rush - cavalry rush everyone on marathon you get your troops out FAST and absolutely decimate everyone before they have a chance to get out a counter.
 
Alright, I suppose the impetus is on me to get this thing moving. I'd like everyone to remember we're not rushing through this too much... it is a Huge game ;) (tbh I've got a test too tomorrow night, as always good luck to a fellow civver... but at the least I think I can get the game up Friday.)

So what I'd like to do, perhaps to streamline things a little, is suggest some options that people can vote on. You can certainly suggest something else but these are settings I'd think are reasonable and no one has spoken out too strongly.

Difficulty: I'm putting up the same two options I mentioned earlier to a vote. The first option is to have the challenge at Deity, and an Emperor save for those who feel that's a more reasonable level. Secondly, we have the option of an Immortal game, with everyone the same and encouragement for players who feel more comfortable to play around with strategies (in fact, if anyone wants a recommendation for what I should do I'll take it, even if it goes against my normal groove, assuming we choose this option). I'd like to do a Deity challenge, but this is also something we could always do in a sequel; the most important part of the series is the Huge maps!

Game Speed: Options are Epic and Normal; I strongly prefer Epic and it seems many others do (and for Marathon players I know it'll still feel very fast...)

Map Script: This is the most variable - though at some point it'll be random enough anyway. Just for my opinion, I continue to see good results with Tectonics maps; they match the other settings fine; test generations earlier today with 60% land (~2500 tiles) and 12 civs seemed pretty good. In my view, Tectonics seems really nice 4/5 times, though the other 1/5 can be less good; but baseline they are also much more dynamic than, say, Continents. One other thing I guess I'd kinda forgotten is that Tectonics tends to give a very strong starting capital (for everyone) but I haven't seen this unbalancing anything else, and might be preferable to us anyway.

Leader: Again, I was quite happy with chancing on the Khmer - don't recall the last game I played with them myself, but they are a solid civilization, with traits suited to any economy/playstyle (Cre/Exp, UU is Ballista Elephant, UB aqueduct with extra food). But for this choice of course we're still taking suggestions, the only thing being that I think we want a leader that everyone can agree as pretty strong to live up to the challenge. I'd discourage Inca/Rome though, sure there are well-known strategies but it might detract from the gameplay.

So anyway, please let it be known how you feel, and also if anyone knows a bit more about setting up map generation/different difficulty saves without worldbuilder spoils it would be nice if we went with that option. (I know DanF posted some very helpful info; I intend to read it but haven't tried anything myself, so just a warning in case I mess something up with the first save).
 
Without a mod you can't have more than 18 civs. So if you have 16 at start and 2 spin off colonies then no one can make any more colonies as I understand it.

If we're all playing the same civ, I'd say any choice of Sury, Mhemed, Pacal, Cathy, Hattie or Washington. The first two are just balanced, good economy/growth civs, Pacal is financial, Cathy, Hattie and Washington all have a nice blend of war and economic traits. Hattie is the only one with a strategy changing UU, and it's quite situational.
 
Back
Top Bottom