Humankind - Greeks discussion thread

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Scientist

Emblematic Unit: Hoplites
Emblematic Quarter: Amphitheatron

Promoters of polymathic thinking and problem solving, Greek philosophers pushed the sciences a long way through their many profound observations.


So glad they went with scientific for them.
Same. This is a good combo of traits and uniques that shows the many things the Greeks were known for - Science, Theater, and Phalanxes.
 
Great design.

No surprises, as we‘ve seen the EQ and EU on screenshots and the culture card made scientist likely.
 
As expected, but I'm pleased with the choices they've made here.
 
Now they just have to make their city list random so that it isn't always Athens. Then the design would truly be perfect!
I wish the automatically assigned city names would correspond to the territory of the region when there is a fit. So that depending of the surroundings you get Athens, Olympia, Thebes or Korinth. Otherwise I'll have to do this myself, just like in civ ;-) Would not be possible for all civs though.
 
What does the 'Scientist' mean?

Is it sort of like in Civ 4 there were traits like Aggressive or Commercial ?
 
What does the 'Scientist' mean?

Is it sort of like in Civ 4 there were traits like Aggressive or Commercial ?

Okay, Commencing Speculation:

I suspect that since the Traits so far are all related to aspects of Game Play: Science, Food (Agrarian), Expansion(ist), Military (Militaristic) that each will give some kind of a bonus towards that aspect of the game. And, I believe they said that aspects of the Faction you choose would 'carry over' into the future Eras, so playing Greeks in the Classical Era could give you some sort of Science-oriented Boost for the rest of the game.

On the other hand, I'd bet that playing a Scientific Faction in, say, the Modern Era would give a much more concentrated boost to your science production than just the 'ancestral' science boost from having been Greeks 2000 years earlier.

And, I can't resist commenting: they still think, along with the rest of the modern world, that the 'Phalanx' was a formation of some kind. Actually, the word simply meant "army" or 'host' and represented everybody you brought to the battlefield. The confusion arises from the fact that in the early Greek city states, the most important part of the Phalanx were the Hoplites: the success or failure of the Hoplites decided the battle and nobody else really counted.

And finally, I see no problem with Athens as a 'capital' of Greece, especially as they are indicated as Science-oriented: while the Natural Philosophers came from all over Greece (except Sparta, who produced neither philosophers nor playwrights nor poets) the Institutions of Science, like the Lyceum of Aristotle and Academy of Plato, were both in Athens (or, specifically for the Academy, right outside the walls in a wooded grove)
 
What does the 'Scientist' mean?

Is it sort of like in Civ 4 there were traits like Aggressive or Commercial ?

Yeah, most probably a bonus in that area. So each Civ you pick in each era adds up and by the endgame you have your custom civ made up of all these traits.

On the other hand, I'd bet that playing a Scientific Faction in, say, the Modern Era would give a much more concentrated boost to your science production than just the 'ancestral' science boost from having been Greeks 2000 years earlier.

That's probably why they aren't releasing any info on the mechanics, trying to get them to work.
 
I wonder if every trait of the same name gives the same bonus, like Phoenicia and Nubia for example, or do they each have their own unique bonuses that are applied to the same area... :think:
 
I still hope the traits make the cultures much more asymmetric than in civ. We won't see EL level of asymmetry, but still...
One way to start is having only 1 generic land unit + your chosen 1 EU + 1 naval unit per era, so that your choice of culture really matters on the battlefield.
Another way is to have positive and negative modifiers instead of just positive ones.
Blocked/additional techs would be welcome as well.

With 60 cultures, however, I fear that the traits might be more like in civ IV and the asymmetry arises mostly from your combination of culture choices over time.
 
That's not an amphitheatre, that's a theatre!

Spoiler Spot the difference: amphitheatre :



Spoiler Spot the difference: theatre :


(I know Firaxis habitually make the same mistake, but it's weird that they went to the extra trouble of calling it an "amphitheatron", when that refers to a different sort of building entirely...)
 
That's not an amphitheatre, that's a theatre!

Spoiler Spot the difference: amphitheatre :



Spoiler Spot the difference: theatre :


(I know Firaxis habitually make the same mistake, but it's weird that they went to the extra trouble of calling it an "amphitheatron", when that refers to a different sort of building entirely...)
Well, amphitheatron is a Greek word - but are there any Greek ones actually? All the Greek theatres I can think of are semicircles. And I don’t remember of a Greek building being called amphitheatron. For Greek theatre, it doesn‘t seem necessary to have seats on both sides anyway, so why not just go with Théātron?
 
And, I can't resist commenting: they still think, along with the rest of the modern world, that the 'Phalanx' was a formation of some kind. Actually, the word simply meant "army" or 'host' and represented everybody you brought to the battlefield. The confusion arises from the fact that in the early Greek city states, the most important part of the Phalanx were the Hoplites: the success or failure of the Hoplites decided the battle and nobody else really counted.

Phalanx may have referred to the whole army in classical Greece, but that does not supersede roughly two millenia of semantic shift. In modern English parlance, "Phalanx" refers to a tight formation of infantry, usually armed with large shields and spears. Compare for example Merriam-Webster
a body of heavily armed infantry in ancient Greece formed in close deep ranks and files
broadly : a body of troops in close array


So while we appreciate your input and desire for historically accurate terminology, in this case clarity to a wide audience wins out.


I wonder if every trait of the same name gives the same bonus, like Phoenicia and Nubia for example, or do they each have their own unique bonuses that are applied to the same area... :think:

Yes. :p

Well, amphitheatron is a Greek word - but are there any Greek ones actually? All the Greek theatres I can think of are semicircles. And I don’t remember of a Greek building being called amphitheatron. For Greek theatre, it doesn‘t seem necessary to have seats on both sides anyway, so why not just go with Théātron?

Again, clarity. As there is another constructible in game called a theater, we wanted to avoid possible confusion, and opted for the less accurate term. (And I don't remember the Greeks ever building any circular or oval theaters either.)
 
Thank God for Greeks getting Scientist bonus, their science and philosophy wete probably their most important contribution to world history, yet civ series NEVER gave them scientific bonus :p
 
Thank God for Greeks getting Scientist bonus, their science and philosophy wete probably their most important contribution to world history, yet civ series NEVER gave them scientific bonus :p
In Civ III, the Greeks were scientific and commercial. :p

I thoroughly approve of the choice of trait. :thumbsup:
 
The choice of amphitheatron for the EQ strikes me as a bit odd given the Scientist trait. I would have expected a gymnasium or academy.
 
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