Humankind - Russians discussion thread

[Eagle Pursuit]

https://twitter.com/humankindgame/status/1323671741126844423?s=19


Unit: Cossacks
Quarter: Sobor
Affinity: Expansionist

 

[Narcisse]

So, Russian represented by Catherine the Great in the artwork, and the Catherine Palace (which is both the CC and in the artwork).
Classic, but nice.

So, easy bet on Merchant Siamese and Militarist Zulu. We are approaching the end of industrial era !

 

[CivLuvah]

So a sobor is basically a more developed lavra, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I expected the culture card artwork to evoke a more snowy St. Petersburg, like a scene out of Chekhov.

 

[Duomo1334]

Слава Путину!

 

[Narcisse]

@CivLuvah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katholikon

Seems to be a broad term which could mean the Cathedral itself. Lavra is more a monestary right ?
If a russian can give his insight ^^

 

[ehecatzin]

So a sobor is basically a more developed lavra, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I expected the culture card artwork to evoke a more snowy St. Petersburg, like a scene out of Chekhov.

I actually like they went for a cold color palette with a lot of contraste between the very well sun lit palace, and the cloudy sky and snowy ground, it feels "chill"

 

[Krajzen]

Meh. Expansionist Russia was obvious affinity (look at their size) but I have really hoped for any other unit than cliche Cossack which is Russian unique unit in Civ over last 15 years (!)
And on top of that we get a religious quarter like in civ6, so basically Humankind's Russia is a port from civ6 (civ6 Russian ability is even "expansionist" in nature)

 

[8housesofelixir]

Meh. Expansionist Russia was obvious affinity (look at their size) but I have really hoped for any other unit than cliche Cossack which is Russian unique unit in Civ over last 15 years (!) And on top of that we get a religious quarter like in civ6, so basically Humankind's Russia is a port from civ6 (civ6 Russian ability is even "expansionist" in nature)

Cossack and Religious Quarter to Russia in historical 4x games is merely as the same as Scientific Seowon to Korea (no, they didn't do science in Seowon), Melee Samurai to Japan (no, they also used muskets), Militarist to Aztecs (they also did farming and landscaping), Builder to Chinese (they were also expansionists), etc - stereotypical and cliché, but the popular audience love them whatsoever.

"Sobor" (собор) is just a general term for all the Christian cathedrals; Lavra is actually more unique. The same wording and design happened to Japan's EQ, Tera (てら, 寺), which is also just a general term for all the Buddhism temples.

 

[Narcisse]

Well, again, I don't know for the Sobor. One of the russian buddy of the discord said than it was for him the expected and obvious naming. And from my own reading, a Sobor can be a cathedral like the quarter of humankind, when a Lavra is always tied to a monestary. And to be fair, the lavra could appear elsewhere. (the one in Ukraine could be a wonder, or for Kieval Rus', the oldest lavra is in greece, etc ...)

 

[SuddenAppearance]

Well, this reveal was a mere formality, we knew almost everything!, still hoped for aesthete Russia, as it's the time for their Golden Age in literature, but expansionist is also valid. Also, art, as always, is lovely

 

[mitsho]

Love the artwork, there's some snow in there.

And yeah, without knowing the legacy trait, this does seem rather boring, but I guess we'll get to know other stuff soon.

With all these religiously inspired quarters, I'm asking myself whether the effect will also be religious in nature? Can you do a whole cathedral run? Like you can do a elephant run? Pyramid run unfortunately isn't possible... ;-)

 

[notNamed]

With all these religiously inspired quarters, I'm asking myself whether the effect will also be religious in nature? Can you do a whole cathedral run? Like you can do a elephant run? Pyramid run unfortunately isn't possible... ;-)

Religious quarters do indeed generate faith among others. In fact, picking some cultures with sacral EQs is required if you intend to get an edge in religion as several of the bonuses from your faith are tied to religious extensions there are no universal ones of. Say your religion gets a tenet which grants "+2 food on all religious extensions" then as a culture which avoided all the mosques, churches, temples and icon EQs, you'd only get that bonus on the so-called Holy sites... you can make only 2 of in total (barring conquest of someone else's).

 

[grug]

So a sobor is basically a more developed lavra, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

By my understanding, a lavra is the church used by hermitical monks and is separated from society, while a sobor is more like an administrative center for the orthodox church.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

By my understanding, a lavra is the church used by hermitical monks and is separated from society, while a sobor is more like an administrative center for the orthodox church.

Lavra comes from the Greek 'laura' (λαυρα) and referred originally to a monastery of hermits, a tradition dating back to the 5th century CE in Palestine. In the Russian Orthodox context, it continues to refer to a monastic community, frequently but not necessarily built around a cathedral or church.
Sobor is strictly Slavic, but has changed meaning somewhat. Originally it came from Old Russian suboru (субору) meaning a council, and that meaning is still used to refer to Orthodox religious councils or meetings, but it also came to mean the structure in which high church councils took place, and then a Cathedral.

In game terms, for once both Civ VI and Humankind got it right: Lavra is more appropriate for the scattered Districts in Civ VI which may be completely disconnected from the city center, while Sobor is more appropriate for the urban concentrations that Humankind builds.

Now about them Cossacks. By the time of Catherine II the Cossacks had finally largely been subordinated to the Russian State, but they were a small percentage of the Russian cavalry, most of which were dragoons with smaller percentages of hussars and cuirassiers. The most unique thing about the Cossacks, and we'll have to wait a bit to see if Humankind shows it since the illustration shows a musket instead, is that they were expert light cavalry Lancers and had been since the 16th century. That would make them unique in Europe by the late 18th century, since by that time most light cavalry were armed strictly with carbines and sabers. The lance came back as a preferred weapon during the Napoleonic Wars as a direct result of everybody's experiences with the Poles and the Cossacks, but in Catherine's time, the Cossacks were pretty much alone as Pig-Stickers.

 

[8housesofelixir]

In game terms, for once both Civ VI and Humankind got it right: Lavra is more appropriate for the scattered Districts in Civ VI which may be completely disconnected from the city center, while Sobor is more appropriate for the urban concentrations that Humankind builds

This is a good point. The mountain adjacency of Civ VI basically means the Holy Sites are more of monastic sites instead of major temples near city center that serves the larger community, and Lavra is a good fit in this situation.