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Hurry production

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by screwtype, Aug 2, 2004.

  1. screwtype

    screwtype Chieftain

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    Is there any rhyme or reason to the cost of hurrying production? It seems to vary hugely from city to city, regardless of city size or number of shields left to produce. For example hurrying a hospital in one city might cost 200 gold and in another 1000 gold, and I can't figure out why it's so much more expensive in one than the other.

    Does anyone know how the cost is calculated, or is it just calculated randomly?
     
  2. ManOfMiracles

    ManOfMiracles Hogwarts Class of '86

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    I'll have to load a game to double-check but I'm pretty certain it is 4 gold per shield still needed as long as you have produced at least one shield toward the project. The price is doubled if you haven't produced any shields yet on the project. Normally for a partially completed project in a small to medium sized city it would be (# usable shields produced by city) * (# turns required to complete project) * 4. The numbers can be off a bit for a huge metropolis because of excess production. For example: A city produces 84 shields per turn, the project requires a total of 200, so after one turn of production the screen will say two more turns required to finish the project when it really amounts to 1.38 turns and some wasted shields. Buying the project after one turn of work toward it would only cost 464 gold [(200shields req-84shields produced)*4 gold] instead of 672 (2 turns * 84 shields per turn * 4 gold).
     
  3. petermarkab

    petermarkab Chieftain

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    Or more simply, take the total shield cost for the build project, found in the civilopaedia, subtract the number of shields already contributed, and multiply the result by 4 to get gold cost. Multiply by 8 if no shields have been contributed.

    In despotism/feudalism/communism, I think its 1 pop point per 30 shields, and again doubled if no shields are contributed, but i don't make a habit of rushing under these governments.

    A trick i do to lower the cost of a large item in a city where no shields have been contributed is to change production to a worker, rush that (costs 80 gold), then change back to your large item. This way you save a significant amount of gold. For example, to rush a marketplace (100 shields) from scratch would cost 800 gold; use the trick and it costs 80 gold (for the worker) and 360 gold (90 remaining shields) making 440 gold - a saving of 360!!

    Ingenius if i don't mind saying so myself. P
     
  4. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir Chieftain

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    Also:

    when you just want to increase the speed of production, but not neceserily produce in the next turn, dont rush it all the way to the end.

    For example, you are heavilly in war and producing knights. You have a good gold income that you want to spend on increasing the speed of producing knights.

    Of course as said, either wait until you have some shields produced, or disband a unit or first rush a worker. But not rush a knight when you have 0 shields in the city.

    But if you rush the second half of the knight, you are still wasting shields since you buy all the shields to complete it and the knight will only be complete the next turn. In that turn shields could be produced, but they wont be used anymore.

    Therefore:

    If you rush a knight but you have different cities to choose where you could do so, rush it in the city with lowest production.

    If you don't need to have it next turn, rush a unit somewhat cheaper than a knight and rush that. Then swich back to knight. It would be ideal if the difference is cost (the amount still needed after doing this) is the same as the cities production or only very slightly lower. You can also choose to have 2 more turns of production. For example, if the citie has production 15, first make sure you have some shields in the city, either by producing them, by rushing a worker or by simply disbanding an obsolete warrior. Then rush a medieval infantry for 40 shields so that you have 30 shields remaing for the knight. The knight will now be ready in 2 turns and the cost relatively low. Nothing is wasted.

    What i also do, even when i have no money to spend is shown in my next example:

    you are producing a knight (70 shields) in a city with 17 production. If you do nothing, it will take 5 turns and you will have 85 shields produced. 15 shields are wasted !!!! So after the first turn, when there are 17 shields produced, i rush a spearmen for only 12 gold (3 missign shields x 4 gold per shield). Then swich back to knights and produce the remaining 50 in 3 turns. This was, only 1 shields is wasted rather than 15 and 1 turn is saved for the mere price of 12 gold.

    That does require some thinking. Probably too much for most casual players, but it sure helps if you want to reach a higher difficulty level. (Or if you are playing gotm and want to get your victory as early as possible :))
     
  5. eg577

    eg577 Chieftain

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    Pop rushing in depostism, communism and facism is 1 citzen per 20 shields, and once again it is twice that many citizens if there are no shields contributed yet. In addition there is a third rule that you cannot "whip" more than half of your citizens at once. In other words, a size 4 city can whip 2 citzens (40 shields if you have at least 1 shield so far) but not 3 citizens. Changing production when rushing with the whip is very important because it allows you to circumvent the limit on how many citizens you can whip.

    As an example, suppose you want to rush a barracks (40 shields) in a size 3 city. Assuming you have at least 1 shield produced so far it would cost 39 shields, or 2 citizens (you don't round down - ignore the war academy article on pop rushing!), and thus you normally wouldn't be able to rush the building in a size 3 city. However, if you switch production to a spearman (20 shields) and whip that project at the cost of 1 citizen then you can switch back to a barracks and whip the remaining 20 shields at the cost of another citizen.

    If you plan out a bit you can really put this whip technique to good use. Say you are a religious civ and settle a very corrupt city in a grassland area far away from your capital. One way to get things going quickly would be something like this:

    -1st turn: size 1, start warrior
    -10th turn: size 2, finish warrior
    -20th turn: size 3, temple = 10/30 shields produced
    -whip to size 2, temple = 30/30
    -40th turn: size 4, granary = 20/60 shields produced
    -whip to size 2, switch to courthouse = 60/80
    -whip to size 1, courthouse = 80/80

    So in just 40 turns a hopelessly corrupt city (1 shield) with a steady +2 food surplus can produce a MP warrior, a temple and a courthouse. Not bad considering it would take 120 turns to build it directly!
     
  6. screwtype

    screwtype Chieftain

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    Hmmm, there's some very useful information there. Thanks for your help, everyone.
     
  7. ManOfMiracles

    ManOfMiracles Hogwarts Class of '86

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    The only problem with using figures from the Civilopedia is it doesn't account for reduced costs based on your civ traits. Otherwise, this will work.
     
  8. petermarkab

    petermarkab Chieftain

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    yep, this is very important at higher diff. levels to squeeze as much production and to minimise waste in a city.


    its all about accounting. Anyone remember fondly the SMAC system of specifying the number of credits to spend? Didn't SMAC have a 'shields completed' column in the city screen? That would be useful in Civ3, help slow down my myopia!


    of course, you're right, my apologies.

    Just thought that you can also add workers to increase your population very quickly. This is an effective way of 'hurrying' wonders without Great Leaders especially in the Ancient Age, with bought foriegn workers and in your capital (culture problems if elsewhere). Just make sure you have the terrain developed.

    P
     
  9. petermarkab

    petermarkab Chieftain

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    Oh yeah and thanks eg577 for the pop-rushing info. Didn't know any of that!

    P
     

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