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Hurrying banks - Worth the Gold?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by LoopyLewis, Jul 31, 2005.

  1. LoopyLewis

    LoopyLewis Warlord

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    Hi all!

    I've played C3C for a while now and I'm currently learning (successfully) how to micromanage efficiently. But I have a hurrying problem!!! :cry: When I have gold in the treasury I always seem go to the cities that are currently building markets or banks and press 'hurry production' - a bad habit :sad:

    The question is, should I hurry the banks?

    In my current game, I'm the Germans - here's Berlin's stats

    Population 12,
    18 commerce,
    13 production,
    6 turns to make a bank,
    276 gold to hurry bank

    In your opinion, for Berlin, is it worth it?
     
  2. Tesuji

    Tesuji Warlord

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    Seems like a no-brainer to me. Bank adds 50% to your coffers. You're making 18 gold per turn, so your town with bank would gain 9 more at best. 6 turns to make a bank, so you gain 6*9=54 gold over letting it finish by itself. For that you pay 276 gold!!!!
     
  3. Tone

    Tone Deity Hall of Fame Staff

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    Welcome to CFC!

    IMO no! Unless I've made a mistake, I reckon that the bank will net you an extra 6gpt, less 1gpt maintenance is 5gpt. In 5 turns (because you still take one turn in rushing it) that will give you an extra 25g which has therefore cost you 251g.

    My question for you is why are you building a bank in the first place? 18gpt from commerce is not that high for a size 12 town. 160sh is a large investment for such a small gain. Are you putting loads into research/entertainment or are you lacking roads and/or not in Republic/Demo? If you are researching, have you got a Lib and Uni (and why build a bank)? If you haven't got many roads, build more workers. If you are not in Rep/Demo-why not? The extra gold per tile will be much better value that a bank.
     
  4. LoopyLewis

    LoopyLewis Warlord

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    "Seems like a no-brainer to me. Bank adds 50% to your coffers. You're making 18 gold per turn, so your town with bank would gain 9 more at best. 6 turns to make a bank, so you gain 6*9=54 gold over letting it finish by itself. For that you pay 276 gold!!!!"

    Hmmm, I knew it - all this time I was wasting valuable gold!!! Grrrr :mad:

    Actually Tone, my entire area is roaded. And I think I was in Republic - or as you said 'should be'. Research is at 0% while Lux is at 10% - making 360 odd gold per turn - while using scientists to do the researching for me (although I can't remember if there are any in Berlin, I'll check). Yet, as you said I'm only making 18 gold per turn. I can't understand why! :sad:
     
  5. Tone

    Tone Deity Hall of Fame Staff

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    I'd be interested to see a screenshot of Berlin if you are in Republic. 90% tax for 18 commerce sounds daft, even if you haven't got a river. I would not be using specialists in my capital (beyond one to keep them happy) except in extreme circumstances. 90% tax is a good reason to get a bank but something's not right here.

    BTW the reason why I added only 6gpt is that IIRC banks add 50% onto base commerce. You must have a market therefore your base is 12 to give 18 with the market bonus. This means that the bank will give an extra 6gpt and don't forget to factor in the maintenance! If you have specialists for happiness, maybe you'd be better off using the 160 shields towards getting a small army and taking a lux from an enemy ;)
     
  6. Own

    Own Grasshoppah

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    I would rush it. Even though its ineffecient gold wise you can start on your next project quicker.
     
  7. thetrooper

    thetrooper Schweinhund

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    I agree. It's the capital (IIRC). But I would wait one turn before rushing to break the steep cost, and maybe disband some obsolete defensive unit there for shields.
     
  8. Himalia

    Himalia Overlord of Eternity.

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    If you have a vast amount of money and nothing to spend it on i say do it. Otherwise prirotise the production of something else. I often end up with incomes in the region of 10000 gpt and if you dont spend it, its dont do anything else for you.
     
  9. Tone

    Tone Deity Hall of Fame Staff

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    Spend money because you have too much? Fine, but don't spend it on something that just gives you more of what you have too much of already. IMO if you have plenty of cash, spend it on what will give you a further advantage in the game. Putting cash into something that will not give a return on the investment for around another 50 turns and then only gives you more cash that you don't need is not worth it.
     
  10. Xerol

    Xerol Emperor

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    Size 12 in republic with all tiles roaded is at least 27 base gpt (2 per tile plus 3 in capital, might be more) and he's already got a marketplace too, so something's off here. Unless he's got a lot of specialists.

    One time where it's good to rush banks is when you're getting 5 to build Wall Street. You'll get the gold back much faster that way.
     
  11. LoopyLewis

    LoopyLewis Warlord

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    Okay, I don't know how to post a screenshot :blush: so I'm hoping it's attatched here somewhere -

    Oh, and here's a little info about the game, just so you know where I'm coming from. I'm in a Monarchy (doh! :blush: sorry) and am making 366 gold per turn. I have 1405 gold my back pocket (though it's only the beginning of the turn ;) ).

    Most cities are producing wealth because I've already built all the useful buildings and am left with Libraries and colluseums and courthouses - so what's the point of changing production to something else? :crazyeye:

    I'm building the only remaining wonder in another city

    I know I have five specialists in the city :D but this is so that I can optimise the amount of techs I'm researching (instead of using the slider which costs money) I'm almost ahead in techs - I think a couple of the other civs have astrology, but if I had more money they would trade that (that's why I want money). I could make 27 gold out of the city without specialists - but it would mean changing the science slider (probably costing me more) :shakehead

    Oh, and it's 780 A.D.

    So, what do you suggest?
     

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  12. DBear

    DBear unbeliever

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    In my last CotM, I made a tech trade that netted me tons of gold, and I used it to rush stock exchanges so I could get Wall Street quickly.
     
  13. LoopyLewis

    LoopyLewis Warlord

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    Ah, but that's the whole point DBear, is it worth it? You don't get the money back - you loose out big time - so what's the point of rushing? you may as well just sit tight and wait for them to be complete.
     
  14. Twonky

    Twonky King

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    As stated already you probably waste money by rushing, but you earn shield production. You could save 6 turns on your bank, which allows you spending 6*13=78 shields on something else. I would suggest a library to be build asap.
     
  15. Own

    Own Grasshoppah

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  16. MeteorPunch

    MeteorPunch #WINNING Supporter

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    1. your city is actually in Monarchy.
    2. it will make less science/more gold without the scientists.
     
  17. Tone

    Tone Deity Hall of Fame Staff

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    Convert those wealth cities to something useful such as knights and go and get astronomy by pointy stick research. That orange border is really close to your capital and will give some excellent, low corruption cities. :mischief:

    BTW why are you in Monarchy? You don't appear to be using the MPs close to home. Have you been in a long war and suffering from WW or are you scared of the unit upkeep in Republic? The only time I go for Monarchy is in Always War games. Republic gives a reasonable number of free units and quick wars should give no more than low level war weariness. Increased commerce and lower corruption should appeal to you if you like building and trading and this more than compensates for the units you have to pay for.

    I'd advise you to switch to Republic, use the lux slider a little if you need to and get the citizens in your core cities producing something. If you really want to build that bank, you need your citizens in Berlin working tiles to make use of the commerce multiplier. Get your specialists in towns that have no research or commerce boosters.
     
  18. LoopyLewis

    LoopyLewis Warlord

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    Thanks guys!

    I'll change to Republic then, I only kept Monarchy because I got there first (was quicker than Rep at time) and because this is a huge map where I thought I'd be at war allot (+ would need to go to Communism to level corruption). But you're right, I should change.

    By the way, this is an Earth map I downloaded off the site a few weeks ago :goodjob: , and apparently is actually larger than huge :eek: . It came with a mod but I only downloaded the map - I think his name was Tet or Tek - but either way, that orange border is the English and my empire stretches almost to the Urals. :king:

    What do you mean by "pointy stick research"? War? In that case, I've just smashed the Russians to bits and am now turning to get the Ottomans (both smaller civs). And am trying to take over the whole of Europe (it has lots of small civs).

    But it would cost more gold overall to research without them :crazyeye: I think anyway. :)

    And Tonky, I'm not using the slider for research (at the moment) so building the library wouldn't give me any beakers. Should I change to using the slider instead of using Specialists? It would cost me allot of gold if I did... :rolleyes:
     
  19. Fried Egg

    Fried Egg Prince

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    This gives me pause for thought...

    Why do the commercial city improvements have a maintenance cost? Shouldn't they be privately funded? In reality, banks, stock exchanges, commercial docks, etc. are all privately owned. I think they shouldn't have a maintenance cost.
     
  20. TruePurple

    TruePurple Civ wanna B

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    Theres a wonder that makes them free upkeep. Not like civ is accurate to reality in many areas.

    Save that gold for for rushing courthouses or trading tech with the AI. or hurrying workers/settlers out of conquered enemy civs, troops to defend a city where the enemy pops up unexpectedly, Or much latter on, stealing techs.

    Now early game its sometimes smart to rush granaries or temples (some people swear by temple free games) when your paying with population. Just count those squares 20 per pop head, so your not wasting the rush too much. Of course the resulting 20 turn unhappiness makes it a touchy proposition. Which is why temple for one pop head is interesting (but not just willy nilly, in an area where you REALLY need the culture or something) I normally only whip 1 pop for 20 shields in a 20 turn time.

    Anyways, I don't recommend bank rushes unless it was a city with really low production coupled with high uncorrupted commerce. If you really need those cities to be producing something else, produce that first, then do the bank. Banks and universities are the kind of items you build when you don't have anything more important to build (like really needed troops, settlers etc)

    Now rushing a library for culture on a border city or a market in a city who has at least 3 lux item access but is a bit disagreeable.. thats another story. But even then they don't take that long to build.

    Remember, rushing costs twice as much if you have no shields to the production yet.
     

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