Hurrying banks - Worth the Gold?

[namliaM]

But it would cost more gold overall to research without them I think anyway.

Hmz... Dont think so...

Lets do some math:
Put 4 of them beaker heads to work on the 4 available tiles, lose 3*4=12 beakers
In monarchy you get only 1 commerce per land tile and 2 for sea i think...
so that makes 2*1+2*2 = 6 commerce.
You can change some of tiles around, mine the irrigated tile.
Now you have more shields in Berlin. 2 spt possibly 4. (1 shield = 4gps!)

Now you add a lib at 1gpt for 50% = 3 more beakers. Total 9.

Lets see, cost 12 beakers + 1gpt, gain 9 beakers + 2 to 4 shields (at 4gs)
Plus! Now you have 6 surplus food. So you can switch a cow or wheat to any and all of the surrounding towns.
Just so you can mine more there as well instead off irrigate. Put more people to work, get more shields, get quicker builds etc....

Then if you revolt into republic you get +1 commerce per tile. Thus you gain four more commerce + 50% from the lib = 6. So in republic your cost will still be 12 beakers + 1gpt, gain 9+6 beakers + 2 to 4 shields!

Then add a University (Upkeep 2gpt).... +50% of base (10 at this time) = 5 more beakers. Cost 2 gpt.

That makes cost 12 beakers + 3gpt, gain 15+5=20 beakers +2 to 4 shields (per turn)

Seems to me you should build them buildings ASAP and get them people back to work!

And..... WHY?
Is bremen (allready POP 12) building a Granary?! Talk about your waste of GPT and Shields

Are you producing wealth?? Must be something you can build, like ... Units?! if you have enough units, surely some improvements or wonders?

 

[Tone]

What do you mean by "pointy stick research"? War? In that case, I've just smashed the Russians to bits and am now turning to get the Ottomans (both smaller civs). And am trying to take over the whole of Europe (it has lots of small civs).

Sort of, but the idea is that you take on someone who has, or who is likely to get, a tech or two that you want. You hit them hard and fast but don't eliminate them. They'll come begging for peace in around half a dozen turns and you will gratefully accept those techs for not taking any more of their cities. (Hopefully you will have got the ones you want by now anyway ) 20 turns later you can go knocking on their door again but in the meantime there's probably another victim with something else that you want.

It can be dangerous as a tech leader may have more advanced units and can use their techs to buy alliances with other civs, making peace treaties less likely. If there are lots of civs then I guess an alliance is more likely but He Who Dares...

 

[LoopyLewis]

If there are lots of civs then I guess an alliance is more likely but He Who Dares...

...wins

That's not a bad idea but the problem is that most of the scientific civs are miles away from me - so I can't bully them quite so easily. I am the most powerful civ - despite having quite a small army compared to my size - and the most evil

I should have posted another screenshot of the new and improved berlin. I waited a couple of turns so that I could get Leonardo's workshop in Paris; Anarchy took 4 or so turns I think, after which without changing things I was making 598 gold!!! So Republic does rule!

It'll was to take 10 turns for Democracy (I have a hunch that few other civs wont go for it, so I could trade ) but after messing around a bit (+ changing the slider to 10%) I got it to 5 turns and 516 gold. So that is efficient - 92 gold for 5 turns - I'm willing to pay it. Compared to when I was in Monarchy there is no going back.

I'm making Smiths Trading Co in another city (higher prod) but I've changed the other cities to more important jobs - not granaries (thanks namliaM ) Also, the ottomans are wiped from Europe... Things couldn't get any better, thanks guys.

Oh, but could you look at the screenshot anyway - do you think this is efficient?

 

[namliaM]

After you get Demo, and have a few libs and uni's (i see your building them now!)... Try putting up the sci slider... If you have enough libs and Uni's you can do 4 turn research! while having the sci slider as low as 70%

 

[Tone]

Now that's the way a MA capital should look!

The map is very food rich. Is the whole of it like that or just certain areas. I would be looking to mine more of the other city areas as I would imagine that so much of that food is going to waste.

Personally I'm not too keen on Demo. The faster workers and minimal corruption are great but war weariness can be a pain and it just doesn't seem worth the turns of anarchy. With a big enough empire, four turn research is possible in Republic and the unit support helps counter the higher corruption. One revolution per game is normally enough for me.

 

[Fried Egg]

Tone

Personally I'm not too keen on Demo. The faster workers and minimal corruption are great but war weariness can be a pain and it just doesn't seem worth the turns of anarchy.

I find the war weariness can be somewhat offset by police stations (especially with the Universal Sufferage wonder) and you get even lower corruption as well.

 

[LoopyLewis]

After you get Demo, and have a few libs and uni's (i see your building them now!)... Try putting up the sci slider... If you have enough libs and Uni's you can do 4 turn research! while having the sci slider as low as 70%

"AS LOW AS 70%!!!" you mean you run around with 70% science; not using many specialists; and building lots of units! No wonder I'm loosing! What I've been doing is saving the money then buying the techs (it seems much easier) keeping a small army to wipe out small civs. But I only keep the slider at about 0-10%. I've been missing out on 4 turn research and a whole lotta fun

* Loopy shoots himself in the foot for being stupid *

Now that's the way a MA capital should look!

Oh good... but erm, what's MA anyway?

 

[Tone]

Oh good... but erm, what's MA anyway?

Middle Ages! (then again some people use it for Modern Armour!)

BTW buying techs can be useful on the highest levels but at the lowest levels you should be leading the way.

 

[LoopyLewis]

Middle Ages!

K - I'll start to put my slider and try to get 4 turn techs and lead instead of follow. Glad you like my *cough* MA *cough* city, Tone - now I feel proud

 

[namliaM]

All the levels up to and including Monarch is lead by example research!

NOTE! 4 turn is the absolute minimum! you cannot go below that in a normal game.

Also! Remeber to allways check! on the last and before last turn of research try to set the slider down a little ... and yet another little and yet more...
Untill you go up in # of turns to research. then set it back 1. This to save gold. As 'overruns', thats research over that what is needed, does not come into you gold AND it doesnt go into the next tech either! It is simply lost.

 

[LoopyLewis]

Thanks namliaM, I'll keep that in mind

 

[LoopyLewis]

Okay, I thought I'd just update the situation (even though this's going a little far from the initial reason for posting - I thought I may as well stick to this post for advice instead of posting a new one, hope that's ok) -

I've won!!!

Victory point win though... and it happened when I just about made it to the industrial era which means I don't get to try out the industrial era once again

Basically, I did what you guys suggested - except I ended up rushing several courthouses in really corrupted cities (I thought they deserved them but what do you think about rushing courthouses?) - and I managed 4 turn research while still making excess of 300 gold and I did what you said namliaM - occasionally making 500 gold (thanks )

Oh, and from now on, if you picture Europe and the middle east, picture them both blue

The thing is, I want to rule the world (I love the alternate history side of my games) even though I know I wont score any more points. Yet, I've never played a game beyond medieval period (I usually know I'm gonna win and quit or I get bored before I even get to it ) so I need advice - which technology should I research first (bearing in mind that I'm Germany) and what can I do about the corrupted cities I conquer (rush courthouses)? And the AI is annoying - only England (yep, the orange border) is friendly with me, everyone else hates me (probably coz I wont share maps) even though a couple of turns before they were polite

Actually, forget the AI one, they'll be dead soon hopefully

 

[SmartJock2112]

Okay, I think I have a couple things:
If your getting bored, because you know you will win by the time you're in the MA, try going up a level, it makes the game more interesting. Play the game at that level a few times (personally I like to try a few different victory types). Or you can do a random map, and randomize all settings (including your civ) and you have no idea what to expect, sometimes you'll get the excact opposite of what you normally do (i.e. an island map when you normally play pangea) and you have to react, and figure out new strategys, that can make things more exciting, even on easier levels. Now that I have furthur sentenced you to a life of Civ -playing, I will try to answer your other questions:

Since you're Germany, you will most likely get Nationallism as your free tech (I always do when play a sci. Civ it seems), besides I think that's the cheepest, and I think that is the determining factor. So I would either go for communism or steam power, RR's are very helpful in terms of production and help transport your troops from your core cities to the front. But on the other hand, if your empire is half the size of your boasting most of those cities are probably effectivly useless because or corruption, and I don't think rushing courthouses will change that, so communism could greatly increase the productiveness of your civ as a whole, not to mention the war wariness issue. I still would suggest building defensive units in your core cities and ship them out to the front to garrison your newly conquer territory, so those cities can build up their infrustucture to become useful (of course, if you want, you could mobalize, too, and wreck some serious havoc with your huge armies). Also, since you are about to get RR's make sure you have planety of workers to lay them down. I would initially use the RR's to connect your core cities to the front, and then worry about the production bonus and RR everywhere. Of course you could go for sanitation and build hospitals for pop growth, which usually means more production, but you'll have to keep them happy. There's a lot of choices you can make (see my sig ), and in the end it's your's, we can advise you, but it's your game, enjoy There's a lot that can be said as to advice, but I must go now

BTW, don't worry about the AI's too much, just make sure you don't have them all gang up on you, otherwise there should be no problem.

 

[LoopyLewis]

Also, since you are about to get RR's make sure you have planety of workers to lay them down. I would initially use the RR's to connect your core cities to the front, and then worry about the production bonus and RR everywhere.

Good point, all my workers are on the limits of my empire building lots of roads and erm... forests on the icy regions in russia And yes, my boasts are correct, on TET's map I have the whole of Europe (except England who are allied and spain who I was about to smash to bits) and the middle east (smashing the last bits of resistance when the game ended [Actually, does Egypt count as Middle East?])

Since you're Germany, you will most likely get Nationallism as your free tech

Yep, I did, but that was good coz I had quite a few muskets defending poor areas of the front (heh )

So I would either go for communism or steam power, RR's are very helpful in terms of production and help transport your troops from your core cities to the front. But on the other hand, if your empire is half the size of your boasting most of those cities are probably effectivly useless because or corruption, and I don't think rushing courthouses will change that, so communism could greatly increase the productiveness of your civ as a whole, not to mention the war wariness issue.

Not the whole 'change government thingy' again! I knew that I would eventually need it to take on this so called 'giga world' but I wasn't expecting to change quite so rapidly after I just changed to Republic. What should I do? If you read my last post it gives you info on my civ - should I stay rep for a while or research commie and change?

Or should I go for railroads... probably prematuraly and therefore not have enough workers.

Or go for sanitation and get into the whole 'help! my citizens aren't happy' zone.

I fancy rails myself as I don't think I need to change to commi yet (although the cities I capture are useless just as you said) and hospitals will just go to waste as I'm currently gearing my economy for war, not growth. But I've never been this far so I do want your advise

 

[namliaM]

Go commy. I never liked commy for the obvious reasons....

But if you are that big.... go commy. I was part of TGOTM and we switched to Commy.... wow.... I know I will do that again in a hartbeat...

Check out that thread here
We turned commy on page 18, you can download the saves just before and after and see the (huge) difference!

 

[SmartJock2112]

Good point, all my workers are on the limits of my empire building lots of roads and erm... forests on the icy regions in russia And yes, my boasts are correct, on TET's map I have the whole of Europe (except England who are allied and spain who I was about to smash to bits) and the middle east (smashing the last bits of resistance when the game ended [Actually, does Egypt count as Middle East?])



Yep, I did, but that was good coz I had quite a few muskets defending poor areas of the front (heh )



Not the whole 'change government thingy' again! I knew that I would eventually need it to take on this so called 'giga world' but I wasn't expecting to change quite so rapidly after I just changed to Republic. What should I do? If you read my last post it gives you info on my civ - should I stay rep for a while or research commie and change?

Or should I go for railroads... probably prematuraly and therefore not have enough workers.

Or go for sanitation and get into the whole 'help! my citizens aren't happy' zone.

I fancy rails myself as I don't think I need to change to commi yet (although the cities I capture are useless just as you said) and hospitals will just go to waste as I'm currently gearing my economy for war, not growth. But I've never been this far so I do want your advise

Ah, choices, choices, choices, that's what Civ is all about Okay, I would hold off on hospitals, for happiness reasons. Communism is a solid government in the game and does help with the major corruption issues you are facing. However, if you are hesitent to change gov't, you could go for rails, set those up for war (you'll need coal, but with your size, you probably already have it), and then go for replaceable parts, but that will require you to be at peace for a while because of the WW associated with republic (never mind Rome (RL) completly dominated as a republic, but alas, I digress). I would strongy suggest Communism before war. With US, it's not absolutly as critical, but still recomended. It kinda depends how much you are itching for your next war. It's kind of funny though, you have the opposite problem than used to with Governements; I used to change them too much, and you are hesitent to do so . It's good though, it's a balance that needs to be found. Change too much, and you suffer with Anarchy that holds you back; too little and your in an inferior gov't. Maybe stay in republic and get a nice tech lead, and then dominate. We can tell you what options you have and the pros and cons of each, but you have to decide how you want to play the game. You ask ten differnt people what you should do, you'll get ten different answers, that is the beauty of CIVILIZATION It's good for you to learn those options and these forums are probably the best place to find them

 

[Desertsnow]

Bank will be competed in 6 turns.
With the current status quo, if rushed, Bank will pay for itself in 40 turns.
Your call.

 

[LoopyLewis]

Bank will be competed in 6 turns.
With the current status quo, if rushed, Bank will pay for itself in 40 turns.
Your call.

Yep... I was stupid

K, time to get back on subject a little

What buildings do you rush and when? I mean, do you ever rush banks or courthouses or do you just rush units? Please explain

 

[gmaharriet]

What buildings do you rush and when? I mean, do you ever rush banks or courthouses or do you just rush units? Please explain

I will rush a barracks if I'm at war and need one near the front for healing and/or upgrading units. I may rush a temple or library to expand cultural borders, especially if I'm in an area I've taken from another civ. If I'm colonizing another continent or remote island, I'll rush a harbor to get the benefit of luxes and resources from my home area...then probably a barracks too. If I've gotten that far, I usually have plenty of gold to do it.

 

[Tone]

When playing 20K or 100K games, I'll rush as much culture as I can. If I'm playing for fast research and I have plenty of cash, I'll rush libs & unis where they'll make a difference but the building I rush the most is probably markets. If I can get a WLTKD from a city due to a market, it'll make a corrupt town productive and that is worth spending a little money on if it's going spare. I tend to use short-rushing whenever possible though to make the most of the sheilds that are being produced.

Just in case you are not aware of short rushing, I'll give an example. If you have a city producing 20 shields per turn and want to build knights, a normal build would take 4 turns but wastes 10 shields. After the first turn, you can switch production to a 30 sh unit (eg settler), rush this for 40g and then switch back to the knight getting it a turn quicker for just 40g. This works best for cities that are producing sheilds in multiples of 10 and so I look to mm cities to acheive this whenever possible. Alternatively a city can be just short of shields to still make it worthwhile short rushing. eg a 23 shield/turn city can short rush a settler after turn 1 getting the knight in 3 turns for 28g (although this is where I would look to use up unwanted reg warriors first).