Hyborem proposal...

heartofgrigori

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Messages
7
yeah so, there has been more than a few games where i was playing "good" and Hyborem seemed to be nothing more than Cautious towards me...at one point it was even PLEASED!! my proposal for the game: take hyborem out of the FFH universe and introduce Montezuma! that f*cker is EVIL! i've had more problems with Montezuma than i've had with Hyborem. I'm sure you can write it in the story somewhat, Montezuma comes in from another world and dethrones Hyborem with his thumb. Hyborem is then exiled to another-nother world.
 
While I don't think replacing Hyborem with a real-world leader is a good idea, I agree he could be a bit more war-like. Every time I ran into him and I wasn't the one who summoned him (I was playing Grigori), I ended up declaring war on him because he was getting in my way and raising the AC; it should have been the other way around.
 
Monte is more aggresive because his power score is a better relation to other players. Hyborems problem is that since he starts late his power score is no where near other players so the game AI assumes that means he is behind and he needs to turtle up. It would be the same even if is was Monte.

But definitly something we need to spice up.
 
How about him getting the same as Basium has, but opposite: declaring war automatically to good/order civs?
 
I think that making Infernal cities start with even larger boni would be a good idea. I'm thinking their cities should start at size 6 (instead of 3) with more free buildings, like Temples of the Veil, Demons Altars, and Weapon Smiths. It would also be nice if they could get these free buildings in cities they conquer, not just those they build, since they don't seem to build settlers very often, and wouldn't have much room to settle their own cities by that point of the game anyway. Similar (but probably slightly weaker) boni for the Mercurians would be good too, sine they also tend to turtle up, event though at war.


I was also thinking that one problem with burning sands/flames often being in Infernal lands. They fit very well thematically, but it really hinders players because they cannot be worked. I was thinking that a building that makes flames or burning sands more productive would be nice. This could be a new building, but it also seems to fit pretty well as an effect for demon's altars or even just from the Sacrifice the Weak civic.
 
Some ideas I would have for raising his score:

Can you make another "Never" technology which is worth a ton of points? Make him start with it (but it does nothing for him) and his score is inflated artificially. Along those same lines, make his Castle worth more points as a Wonder (or just add a wonder to Dis which has some sizeable score)

How about if there is ocean in the game making him raise up out of the sea with his own landmass? Or grant him cultural influence in every tile not currently in cultural borders already. Each of these seem rather iffy for being able to be put in code, but would give him points for landmass at least.

Final possibility would be to make Snake Pillars worth more points. IIRC tile improvements are worth points toward your score, so make a Snake Pillar worth more and he gets more score with expansion of Hell.
 
Of course, boosting his score too much could cause problems with the Barbs (they declare war on him when his score is 50% higher than the second best player, just as they would any other barbarian trait leader)

ps.Why do you always refer to palaces as castles? Castles are a very different building, and also a terrain improvement (the stage between forts and Citadels) in Shadow. This makes your posts confusing sometimes.
 
Sorry, keep forgetting the true name of the Capitol buildings :) Fantasy mod, so I think Castle when I remember something :) Will attempt to keep it clear in my head from now on ;)

Realised a problem with trying to boost his score via Wonder: Take Dis in war and you get the score boost for yourself, and with a Tech he might try to trade that away. So it'd be pretty dang hard to do I suppose ;(
 
Sorry, keep forgetting the true name of the Capitol buildings :) Fantasy mod, so I think Castle when I remember something :) Will attempt to keep it clear in my head from now on ;)

Realised a problem with trying to boost his score via Wonder: Take Dis in war and you get the score boost for yourself, and with a Tech he might try to trade that away. So it'd be pretty dang hard to do I suppose ;(

'Never' is already untradeable, as is the tech that the lanun have that gives them bonus seafood. also, many techs have minor power ratings on them. i think this idea could work in tricking hybo into making war more often, but there's still the problem that he'll be crushed by whoever he decides to attack 9 times out of 10
 
Giving Hyborem (the unit) a huge power score could help. Since they will lose their traits when he dies they problably should turtle more once he's gone.
 
or just give them a few more units to start with? (lower level ones that is)
 
or just give them a few more units to start with? (lower level ones that is)

Ideally whats needed is a way for Hyborem's power to scale with whats going on in the world. This could be done by giving him more or less settlers/units to begin with, though its a bit difficult to know what criteria to use as settlers are useless if all the land has been grabbed. Maybe the summoning Ashen Veil player can send word ahead to Hyborem whether to bring settlers or war units? Or sacrifice population in their cities to give Hyborem a better starting situation and a diplomacy bonus?
 
I personally don't think Hyborem needs to more aggressive. I'd ratherh ave him be stronger and able to win the game with some sort of hell victory.

In other words forcing the player to fight him.
 
I personally don't think Hyborem needs to more aggressive. I'd ratherh ave him be stronger and able to win the game with some sort of hell victory.

In other words forcing the player to fight him.

I always like seeing Hyborem come into the game, but he's so passive and never a big threat unless the world is already in shambles. As it is, he is only ever a danger when a player controls him, and even then, he usually doesn't last. I'd love to see him given a little help to make him a real competitor.
 
Why not a civ-specific building that can be constructed (relatively) quickly but is worth a lot of points? Like... replacing City Walls with a Wall of Bone or Wall of Souls or something. It builds quickly, would presumably provide superior defense and a cultural bonus (or something), and be worth enough points that constructing them would drive Hyborem's score way up -- particularly if he conquered a few cities and built them there too. It would do a good job of reflecting his status as a threat to the entire world, since his score would snowball as he conquered more of the world.

Actually, here's a thought -- a Wall of Souls, which in addition to serving as a City Wall, could summon a spectre whenever an enemy unit was adjacent to the city or even whenever an enemy unit entered the city's fat-cross. Or would that TOO much? I do notice that the Infernals don't seem to have a flavor building for their cities, and something militaristic seems very in-character for Hyborem.

Anyway, just an idea.
 
Well, according to the mouseover of your own score, you get points for:
Technology
Land
Population
Wonders

I am reasonably certain that I have seen the score go up when workers build improvements, so Land might include tile improvements. But I do not think that any non-wonder building in your city counts toward your score. I'd have to watch more closely in the early game when I build some buildings to check that one out.
 
Well, according to the mouseover of your own score, you get points for:
Technology
Land
Population
Wonders

I am reasonably certain that I have seen the score go up when workers build improvements, so Land might include tile improvements. But I do not think that any non-wonder building in your city counts toward your score. I'd have to watch more closely in the early game when I build some buildings to check that one out.
Does the score include national wonders? Those don't pass to a civ that conquers the city containing them, so a national wonder might be a good choice.

Of course, the Infernals are already screwed if they lose Hyborem, so having another thing that they will be crippled by the loss of seems harsh. But then, a national wonder can be rebuilt in another city.
 
It's definately possible. Actually, you have seen single-civ national wonders before: Palaces (of Castles as you like to say ;)). Technically these are all civ-specific unique national wonders. Giving the Infernals there own special wonder would be just as easy, just requiring settling everyone else's unique version to NONE.
 
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