[HybridComp] Promotions & Perks

[Suki]

that idea for 'combat engineers' promotion letting infantry build roads..why not have them automatically build forts whenever they're fortified for long enough

 

[Aeon221]

This mod is too cool.

 

[Optimizer]

You should add an anti-aircraft and anti-helicopter promotion - you can call it "Flak".

 

[s3d]

I played this mod within other composite mods, and I think the Attack promotion is disbalancing. Also, in the mods I've player it include +15% defence in all tiles. It's way too much. It also make Combat promotion useless. I think it should be either removed, or toned down and merged with combat.

 

[Zuul]

Also, in the mods I've player it include +15% defence in all tiles.

Played? Well if you look closely it's not +15% defence but -15%.
It's not at all same as combat bonus, because this one only gives extra when attacking and no extra when defending.

I'm back playing and modding civ 4 after xmas (after 3 weeks break), so I might do some update to this mod then.

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

Inspired by your implementation of the Attack promotions I have made a "Defender" promotion with +15% defence in all terrain. A series of such promotions could act as a nice foil to the attack promotion. I was hoping you would add it (and make the cool buttons which are your trademark) in the next version.

In addition the RealFort mod could use some buttons made for the Fortification promotions it gives (their currently just using City Defender). Both of these would be easy and worthwhial additions to your next version.

 

[Seven05]

I actualy removed the attack promotion, the AI was using it almost exclusively since the minor penalty isn't enough (in most cases) to offset defensive bonuses for terrain, crossing rivers, etc... I've found that the AI is very good at point out balancing issues, if you see them doing one thing above all others that one thing needs to be fixed

Perhaps it could be restricted to only units that receive no defensive bonuses (e.g. mounted & armor units). I would definately take it off the naval units, with the considerably higher movement speeds it is very easy to ensure you do most of the attacking with those ships with attack promotions, the AI isn't smart enough to pass one ship in order to hit another that is suffering from defensive penalties.

 

[Pfeffersack]

A really nice mod and good work on the promotion icons - they look as they were in the game from the release on.

However, one thing I wonder about...does the AI use the new promotions and does is "know" when they are useful?

 

[Zuul]

They use them and I think they know as much as before how to use them (because I have not yet added any new kind of bonus, all XML and no Python).

Will start working on next version this week, epsecially adding new icons for others to use (like the fort mod).

 

[Zuul]

I will update my mod next week. Please give some more suggestions on what kind of promotions that I should add (and no new features for this version, maybe the one after this will have one).

Planned features:
Attack IV (+20% attack, Attack III changed to +15%)
Defender I, II, III, IV (Like attack but for defence instead, especially useful on ships)
Fort I, II, III, IV (will incorporate the fort mod and add new graphics and settings to it)

Traits and Perks:
Avatar (better than legendary hero)
Attacker (+20% attack, -20% defence)
Defender (-20% attack, +20% defence)
Light (+1 move, +10% withdraw, -20% strength)
Heavy (-1 move, -10% withdraw, +20% strength (only for fast units))

+ some more minor changes

 

[GIR]

light and heavy is cool (especially for tanks and naval units - heavy = königstieger or bismarck... : -) , but -20%strength is too less for light (+1 movement is really strong, so you should use a much "higher" value to compensate this)

 

[AWolfe]

light and heavy is cool (especially for tanks and naval units - heavy = königstieger or bismarck... : -) , but -20%strength is too less for light (+1 movement is really strong, so you should use a much "higher" value to compensate this)

Another thing to consider is that "heavy" military naval vessels are also faster than the norm because their larger engines had a better thrust-to-weight ratio than the average vessel of the type. This is true for both WW2 American and Japanese warships (BBs and CVs), and is still true today. Unlike on land, on water heavier = faster and lighter = much faster. However, prior to WW2 and especially prior to WW1 this wasn't true (engine technology wasn't as good) and heavy did mean slower.

 

[GIR]

yes, thats maybe right - it sounds reasonable.

but we have to choose between "more realistic" promotions and promotions which improve gameplay. in my opinion the light and heavy promotion are a great idea for certain units, but if you lose one movement (for example tank) you should get more than only 20% strength because it is only a little more than Attack I. (same for a tank with movement 3 because attack I would compensate the -20%)

it is different for naval units. for better game play i would use +2/-2 movement.... but this is only my opinion
(because if you dont want to lose movement use attack and combat promotions only)

gir

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

To avoid confusion with the Attack/Defence series the two promotions

Attacker (+20% attack, -20% defence)
Defender (-20% attack, +20% defence)

could be given differnt names, I sugjest Berzerker/Assault for the former and Stalwart/Stone Wall for the later. These both might need to go to 25% effect inorder to be significantly different from a level of Attacker/Defender which typicaly gives 15%-20% with no downside.

 

[GIR]

yes, i also think that 25% would be the better choice for Berzerker and Stalwart/Stone Wall.

edit:
and the "Attacker", "Defender", "Light" and "Heavy" Traits should be normal Promotions and not only "world builder" promotions like hero,...

 

[Rabbit, White]

I would like a clarification on one point I'm a bit dense on.
So the idea of the Attack I/II/III promotions is that you increase strength of unit (by 15%) but give it an equal penalty for defence on all terrains, so in essence it gains a bonus only to attacks, as oppose to the Combat promotion which increases both attack and defence, am I correct?
Also, shouldn't the penalty also include hills?

 

[Exavier]

Wow I am surprised this mod hasn't been updated since I merged it into my mod originally lol.

I look forward to more

 

[Wadash]

I really like your promotions, but I also felt that the "Hero" promotions should come by themselves.
So, since noone made that happen in a mod (well, maybe it would have helped if I asked someone ) I have tried to make it myself, I hope you don't mind.

It works like this:
There is a 1 in 100 chance that a unit will get a free promotion per turn
any unit with more than 5 exp may get the Exceptional Promotion
any unit with Exceptional and more than 10 exp may get the Extraordinary Promotion instead
any unit with Extraordinary and more than 25 exp may get the Hero Promotion instead
any unit with Hero and more than 50 exp may get the Legendary Hero Promotion instead
also
Any empire may only have 16 Exceptional, 8 Extraordinary, 4 Hero and 2 Legendary Hero units at once.

If anyone is intested I have attached a zip file containing a python folder - put it inside the Promotions and Traits folder - in Assets or CustomAssets (depending on where you put it)
It should work, but please forgive me, this is my first time making a mod and first time using python too.

PS All numbers mentioned above can be easily modified if anyone wants them different.

 

[jjsheets]

I have done a similar thing in my personal modifications. Instead of randomly giving them out any time, tho, I give out the heroic style promotions randomly any time a unit wins a fight. There is about a one in twenty chance that a Unit will gain a heroic promotion, with extroardinary being by far the most commonly received one. The unit is also given a "Historic" promotion. The historic promotion is a simple +10% strength. The Heroic style promotions are reduced in strength by 10% each, but all other factors remain. Heroic Promotions go away after ten turns, at which time there is a one in five chance that a snaitf style Great General is spawned. All this is done with Python code in my modified CvEventManager file. When a Unit gains and loses the promotions and when the Great General is spawned, notification messages are given also.

I am probably going to reduce the chances of receiving the Heroic style promotions being given, as I am hoping to make some changes to the great general so that it specifically gives extra experience to new units when added to a city as a super specialist.

I may make my version available soon, but I really want it combined with my version of the great general. I'll also have to extract it from the other modifications I've made.

 

[Zuul]

light and heavy is cool (especially for tanks and naval units - heavy = königstieger or bismarck... : -) , but -20%strength is too less for light (+1 movement is really strong, so you should use a much "higher" value to compensate this)

Another thing to consider is that "heavy" military naval vessels are also faster than the norm because their larger engines had a better thrust-to-weight ratio than the average vessel of the type. This is true for both WW2 American and Japanese warships (BBs and CVs), and is still true today. Unlike on land, on water heavier = faster and lighter = much faster. However, prior to WW2 and especially prior to WW1 this wasn't true (engine technology wasn't as good) and heavy did mean slower.

yes, thats maybe right - it sounds reasonable.

but we have to choose between "more realistic" promotions and promotions which improve gameplay. in my opinion the light and heavy promotion are a great idea for certain units, but if you lose one movement (for example tank) you should get more than only 20% strength because it is only a little more than Attack I. (same for a tank with movement 3 because attack I would compensate the -20%)

it is different for naval units. for better game play i would use +2/-2 movement.... but this is only my opinion
(because if you dont want to lose movement use attack and combat promotions only)

gir

Okey, I will make one type for land units and one for naval. But lighter ships do move faster (if they have same engines or sails that is) if you through out some things like half of the cannons (still same unit type, just different equipment).

To avoid confusion with the Attack/Defence series the two promotions

Attacker (+20% attack, -20% defence)
Defender (-20% attack, +20% defence)

could be given differnt names, I sugjest Berzerker/Assault for the former and Stalwart/Stone Wall for the later. These both might need to go to 25% effect inorder to be significantly different from a level of Attacker/Defender which typicaly gives 15%-20% with no downside.

Yea your are right. But see below.

yes, i also think that 25% would be the better choice for Berzerker and Stalwart/Stone Wall.

edit:
and the "Attacker", "Defender", "Light" and "Heavy" Traits should be normal Promotions and not only "world builder" promotions like hero,...

Well eventually the perks/traits will be added in game, usualy when unit is built. I could add a similar promotion too though.

I would like a clarification on one point I'm a bit dense on.
So the idea of the Attack I/II/III promotions is that you increase strength of unit (by 15%) but give it an equal penalty for defence on all terrains, so in essence it gains a bonus only to attacks, as oppose to the Combat promotion which increases both attack and defence, am I correct?
Also, shouldn't the penalty also include hills?

Yes like I have expalined before, only extra on attack and no extra on defence. Also hills always have a terrain type like grass or tundra so it's also effected (and not on it's own a terrain like in Civ1+2+3)

Wow I am surprised this mod hasn't been updated since I merged it into my mod originally lol.

I look forward to more

Well I got too addicted to the game so I had to remove it for a while so I started eating again and other low priority things . I'm still too addicted so I have to uninstall it, for a while, again after this update lol.