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Hydro Plant / Wind Plant

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Deadstarre, Nov 26, 2017.

  1. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    defeatist attitudes are never a good look for anybody, and it was simple, but i already acknowledged the PTSD so we're agreed here.
     
  2. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    So have we decided anything about the original topic?
     
  3. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Yes, letting deadstarre test it for himself and wait for a report :D
     
    vyyt likes this.
  4. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    When cities grow big, each citizen represents a growing number of people i.e. as seen in Demographics. +1 citizen when city is 30 is much much more people than when it is at 10. So, it is reasonable that unhappiness from Urbanization could grow faster when cities gets bigger and bigger.
     
  5. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    If the recent changes help the AI to remain competitive later in the game, it will make it much easier to fine tune some of these late game buildings. Currently I'm very confident I'll win when wind plants come along, I don't feel pressured to make the right decision, I'm always way ahead of the AI
     
    Owlbebach and ElliotS like this.
  6. Galbias

    Galbias Prince

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    I build Wind Plants sometimes, mostly for the extra Science. Hydro Plants are a lot less useful considering River tiles are usually a lot less of a given city's workable tiles, would prefer to see them go up to 3 yields per tile maybe.
     
  7. HungryForFood

    HungryForFood Prince

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    Adding to this. the drawback to Hydro Plants and Wind Plants for me is that they don't affect all tiles. This is less of a problem for Wind Plants, since Snow, Desert, and Tundra are not tiles you want to work anyway, but for Hydro Plants the number of river tiles can be more limited.

    I'd like to see that both buildings affect all tiles, while keeping the river/non-river requirements of the city.
     
    Gokudo01 likes this.
  8. Amask

    Amask Oogala Boogala

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    I love both hydro and wind plants, and usually beeline to them. I feel growing can still be worthwhile at that stage due to instant science yield on growth, so I'd rather work some nicely buffed tiles than run merchants or engineers. Usually I do have enough pop to run the important specialists (scientists and artists/writers, maybe diplomats) and still have enough pop left over to work the land. I've found use for both plants in all kinds of games (all three openers, all kinds of victory conditions). Immortal/deity level.

    Disclaimer - until this week, I haven't played since 10-9 version (of 2016), so I'm not sure yet how the late game is affected by all the changes since then.
     
  9. DarkZero

    DarkZero Warlord

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    This mod is pretty much a lot different then what you played, especially the late game, did we even have corporations back in 10-09 of 2016?
     
  10. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Yes.
     
  11. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    @Infixo I see you kicking ass on Github =) I fixed the specialist yield tooltip for cities displaying the modified results (which nobody wants or needs) in Nov and i've been "testing" it (lol) ever since, it causes no problems and works perfect. The only thing I touched in the file was the lines for tooltip specialist yield display, altering the equation so it doesnt take modifiers into effect anymore (adds and then negates them actually but i recall a problem when I just tried deleting them, maybe I did it wrong IDK). im sure theres a more elegant method to this solution but nobody else wants to look at it and I can say for sure that this one works fine regardless, and it can only help to be showing people the real numbers in display so they can have a properly informed discussion regarding all the specialist changes going on without being thrown off by modifiers. if the file is of any interest to you im uploading here
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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  13. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    in city view, when you hover over a specialist slot it displays a tooltip showing the yields working that specialist gives. right now, those yields are affected by city modifiers so for example people think working a scientist can give them 13.6 science, while they might also be evaluating an academy on the terrain that displays 9 science as yield. problem is, the terrain is never modified, so while working the specialist appears to give more science, if you work the academy instead and then do the math on your output you'll often see working the academy was in reality better.

    the singular function of displaying tooltips for specialists is so people can do comparisons between working the specialist, and working the land. when one number is modified and the other isn't, this sows chaos and confusion and you get posts like this https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...rther-development.626012/page-5#post-14969881 - he's trying to help but has no idea the numbers in the tooltip are wrong to compare to terrain values.
     
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  14. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    the change I did was here from

    yieldTips:insertIf( specialistYield ~= 0 and specialistYield * specialistYieldModifier / 100 .. tostring(YieldIcons[yieldID])

    to

    yieldTips:insertIf( specialistYield ~= 0 and specialistYield + specialistYieldModifier - specialistYieldModifier .. tostring(YieldIcons[yieldID])


    again, probably a dumb solution but it works perfectly.
     
  15. MorphBer

    MorphBer Warlord

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    I would very much apreciate if this was auto included, if not I will try your solution myself
     
  16. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    if youre playing in the meantime can just download the file I put above, unzip and replace the existing file in Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\(6a) Community Balance Overhaul - Compatibility Files (EUI)\LUA
     
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  17. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    Lua is very flexible...

    Alas.
    I understand the situation. But is this the only case where modifier is used? To make these yields really comparable, all must be displayed without modifier. The only place the where modifier is used would be in main city screen. That makes sense for me.
    Adding the modifier to Tile tooltip would probably confuse poeple even more.
     
  18. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    EUI is still using modifiers to display yields for the buildings in city but those don't matter at all, i build them and then don't interact with them- plus the unmodified yields are still shown on the building tooltip if i really cared about the base value for something i'd already built. adding modifier to tiles would be an unnecessary disaster yeah. and in all my time playing, the only modifier that actually presents a gametime problem is the yield specialist tooltip when it has the bogus modified values, as its the only one i directly compare to land when making decisions. EUI isn't perfect, but this is the only part of it that actually requires changing

    without showing the unmodified specialist yields in city tooltip, a player literally has no way to tell what their base values are at any given time without doing some crazy math or knowing every tech and building upgrade by heart
     
    Infixo likes this.
  19. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    If you hover over the building in the city screen, not the specialist, the tooltip shows the number of specialists that building has, and the base yields (without modifiers) that specialist gives when worked.
     
  20. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    good call. its an eyesore to sort through when the only relevant number i need can easily be displayed by itself (specialist tooltip) rather than finding it via the entire buildings info stacked on top of each other, but yeah i actually hadnt seen that before.
     

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