I Am Totally Confused

docbud

Emperor
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
1,518
I admit it--I am totally confused with Brave New World.

My gold sucks, my happiness stays at -5 with three cities and the whole thing is confusing. I am on Prince level, and I was holding my own in Gods & Kings. But I am totally lost in Brave New World. I don't understand all the new stuff and how to do strategy.
 
I admit it--I am totally confused with Brave New World.

My gold sucks, my happiness stays at -5 with three cities and the whole thing is confusing. I am on Prince level, and I was holding my own in Gods & Kings. But I am totally lost in Brave New World. I don't understand all the new stuff and how to do strategy.

Here are some things I've found to be good for me in my games. Adopt them or bash them with a hammer... it's up to you. :p

~Exploration - this is a lot more important than it used to be because now trade routes are tied to what cities you know exist. Having two scouts and a naval scouting unit out as soon possible will help you be able to maximize the value of your trade routes early on.

~Trade Routes - like I said above, really important now. Get them up as early as possible, particularly naval trade routes as they provide even more gold. That being said, make sure you're able to protect the integrity of your trade routes. War and barbarian incursions can disrupt your trade routes and absolutely wreak havoc on your economy. Once you've got the World Congress going, don't underestimate the value of having diplomats in the cities of civilizations that are of strategic importance. The ability to trade votes cannot be understated. Early on, it's likely that someone you're trading with will be embargoed, and I've also noticed that other civilizations like to put up the "Embargo Trade with City-States" proposal. You'll need to be able to protect your economy diplomatically, so make sure you've got a few diplomats hanging out.

~Happiness problems - I'm not sure what your playstyle is, but hold on to at least one copy of every luxury resource you have. If happiness is a problem for you, you might want to think about trading luxury resources for luxury resources you don't have. Also, City-States are a good source for this as well. Befriend them, buy their allegiance and you'll gain access to their luxury goods. Also, make sure you're leveraging the social policies to their fullest extent. If happiness is still a problem for you, try playing as Portugal for a while until you feel you understand the rest of the game's systems well-enough to tackle the happiness problem head-on.

What else might you need advice on?
 
Ever since CiV Vanilla I've always been a huge luxury resource trader. Luxury resources are one of my primary factors in choosing city locations. I also stay at peace and trade, trade, trade. I also am big on Patronage getting me even more resources to trade to my friends.

I had zero happiness issues, I never even had to build circus or colleseum until the last 50 turns. I stayed at four cities, but they include the top city in the game by tourism desireability Babylon.

My third city might actually be the largest by land area.

Make some friends, trade, for luxuries, complete quests for City States, and just plain bribe them to give you luxuries.

Also there are a number of Civs that have happiness and trade bonuses, Arabia is my next Civ to play and an old favourite. Some of the G&K and BNW Civs have trade bonuses.

I earned a tonne of Golden Ages and thus happiness from trades.
 
^^^The problem is the whole thing is confusing to me. Maybe it's because I'm fifty years old and not as smart as I used to be.

I have happiness of +12, and 20 turns later I'm down to 2.

I don't know how to explain it, but I will try. I had no problem with Vanilla and Gods & Kings was a small learning curve.

Brave New World is like an entirely new game to me.

Will anyone be doing a basic tutorial, such as the 4-city opener?

Like I said, I'm totally confused. Do I keep rushing science? Do I do trade route? If so, how in the hell do they work? Do I make great writers? Do I take Asthetics for a SP?

So far, I've rushed Great Library and NC and have that done in plenty of time. I settle a second city afterwards, and then it all goes to crap. The happiness just keeps dropping turn by turn.

Like I said--Brand New World is a totally different game, at least to my brain.
 
Well it seems to me you are growing to fast. Click avoid growth and grow your cities as you need the production. Once as was pointed out you get some CS allies, you can grow without watching.


50 is not old by the way!! I am pushing the big 50 and do not feel a day over 45.
 
^^I don't feel fifty, either. But sometimes my brain does.

Maybe it's just me (I don' think so), but there is a big learning curve with BNW.
 
I really appreciate reading this. I am incredibly overwhelmed with BNW. there is just so much new stuff, I feel like some of the civs are sort of lost in the mix now, there is just sooooooo much at each tech branch, that I find myself with almost too many options. add in all the changes made to simple stuff like how the cpu handles fighting and barb camps and aggression, its just a lot. new wonders, new civs, new units.

and frankly, im having a hard time even testing anything. its all over the place.

will take some getting used to, but imo this has a muuuuuuuuuuuch steeper learning curve, as I NEVER played Civ prior to purchasing Civ 5 Gods and Kings, had logged 500 plus hours on gods and kings, and am just floored by the amount of stuff in BNW. tourism sort of makes my head hurt when im trying to manage everything else

I actually am playing TWO difficulty levels lower than usual(down to prince), and even at that pathetic level, which I'm playing just so I can get through everything and try to find a balance...Im noticing a serious increase in the cpu's abilities. their literacy is far and away better than anything Ive seen in G and K, and just sort of understanding this whole fog of war for me but not for them type of stuff is enough.

I swear its practically civ 6.
 
I can't believe that #&*!@$! Korea just settled a second city on turn 22 right in my face!

I hear 'ya @Civilmyzation!

I can't make heads or tails of what to do. I spend most of my time fighting off barbs, civs like Korea acting like jerks on turn 22 (when I'm still building infrastructure). And I'm only playing Prince level.

I'm in over my head. I've rage quit at least six times tonight.
 
You really shouldn't be building infra that early unless it's a monument. My usual build is scout-monument-worker-settler.
 
I can't believe that #&*!@$! Korea just settled a second city on turn 22 right in my face!

I hear 'ya @Civilmyzation!

I can't make heads or tails of what to do. I spend most of my time fighting off barbs, civs like Korea acting like jerks on turn 22 (when I'm still building infrastructure). And I'm only playing Prince level.

I'm in over my head. I've rage quit at least six times tonight.


Hang in there. I just won my first game on Prince with BNW and I'm slightly older than you.....;)
 
I've been doing OK, but I definitely hit a wall with happiness and gold.

Also, I am obsessed with playing the Shoshone because their ability is amazing to me, but I quit after about 90 turns because of the wall and because I feel I have missed so many ruins.

I think, in the end, it is my opening. Pathfinder and Pottery, Shrine and Luxury Tech, and then that is where I think I fall apart. I've been trying another pathfinder so I have three out, but I invariably have to call them back for defense as archers and miss the last of the ruins. Soldier on though I guess...
 
Rejoice for this is the re-birth of Civilization as we knew it before Vanilla/G&K. I am not making fun of you. What the OP is denouncing is perhaps the best that could happen to Civ5.

Indeed, it feels like a new game. And I like it.
 
Here are some things I've found to be good for me in my games. Adopt them or bash them with a hammer... it's up to you. :p

~Exploration - this is a lot more important than it used to be because now trade routes are tied to what cities you know exist. Having two scouts and a naval scouting unit out as soon possible will help you be able to maximize the value of your trade routes early on.

~Trade Routes - like I said above, really important now. Get them up as early as possible, particularly naval trade routes as they provide even more gold. That being said, make sure you're able to protect the integrity of your trade routes. War and barbarian incursions can disrupt your trade routes and absolutely wreak havoc on your economy. Once you've got the World Congress going, don't underestimate the value of having diplomats in the cities of civilizations that are of strategic importance. The ability to trade votes cannot be understated. Early on, it's likely that someone you're trading with will be embargoed, and I've also noticed that other civilizations like to put up the "Embargo Trade with City-States" proposal. You'll need to be able to protect your economy diplomatically, so make sure you've got a few diplomats hanging out.

~Happiness problems - I'm not sure what your playstyle is, but hold on to at least one copy of every luxury resource you have. If happiness is a problem for you, you might want to think about trading luxury resources for luxury resources you don't have. Also, City-States are a good source for this as well. Befriend them, buy their allegiance and you'll gain access to their luxury goods. Also, make sure you're leveraging the social policies to their fullest extent. If happiness is still a problem for you, try playing as Portugal for a while until you feel you understand the rest of the game's systems well-enough to tackle the happiness problem head-on.

It's worth asking what game stage he's reached, since he may be suffering adverse effects from ideology.

I've had a good run with happiness in my current game, but it has occasionally been an issue - being Indonesia with two off-continent cities helps (this can also help a lot with gold issues if you make Declarations of Friendship, or if you trade your luxuries for gold per turn. Unlike every other civ in the game, Indonesia can rely on having luxuries that no other civ will ever possess, so it can always trade resources with somebody), but having Samarkand as my closest CS was certainly required to balance the happy books from time to time.

Some religious tenets are very good for happiness, but bear in mind that a common G&K choice - Ceremonial Burial - has been toned down (it's now +1 happiness per 2 cities, not per city), so if you're used to relying on that you may find you have difficulties. Also, most happiness buildings produce less happiness than they used to. Another thing to watch for is horses and ivory - circuses haven't changed, and are therefore now excellent. I lucked out here as well: I have four of five circuses in a 7-city civ.

Trade routes are very important, especially early, but they aren't your only source of gold. If you can get it (and it's still not an AI priority - on Prince you should have no trouble), the Mausoleum of Helicarnassus is arguably now one of the most powerful Wonders in the game, as gold is rarer and Great People more common. A couple of times this game I've found myself doing something I never did unless I ran out of buildings to construct in the past: set cities to Wealth production.

The religious belief Tithe is better than ever - in my current game, by the 19th Century it's earning me over 60 gold a turn. Piety now makes faith somewhat quicker to generate, and religion is if anything more important than in G&K.

Also, if you're used to building lots of buildings and units, try to look through what you've built and scrap what you don't need - with gold generally in shorter supply for much of the game (I have a large income in my current game, but trade routes are not the biggest contributor), you will need to specialise more. This is particularly the case because you will now mostly need. You may well be able to get by with fewer units - I've built very few (but then I am using Convert the Heathen as a Reformation belief, which is very possibly completely overpowered). My two games so far have been mostly very peaceful.

Consider having one or two "trade hubs". The best cities for this will usually be on the coast, and with either a lot of strategy and/or luxury resources, or by a river (the best sites have both, but usually if you have at least two resources, at least in the early game using caravans this will provide a bigger benefit than rivers alone). This way you can build fewer caravansaries (but not harbours - any city you can't connect to your road MUST have a harbour, since the gold you get from overseas "city connections" is, at least in my experience, the single biggest non-religious, non-Wondrous income earner. Plus harbours boost trade as well). Bear in mind that trade routes have limited range, so the trade hubs should be accessible for the major civs/city-states you want to trade with (these will ideally be ones that don't share the same resources as your trade city).

Finally, for subsequent playthroughs try civs that have benefits to gold and/or happiness, or (like Indonesia) abilities that you can use to generate these, so that you can get a hang of the new game without worrying so much about happiness and gold.
 
Happiness was a big problem for me even with 3 mercantile city state allies and asceticism (I did have 2 puppets) until I was able to reach an ideology. Once you pick the right tenants, it's pretty easy to control any happiness issues. Until then, just try to keep your head above water.
 
^^^The problem is the whole thing is confusing to me. Maybe it's because I'm fifty years old and not as smart as I used to be.

(snip)

Fifty? Sixty-five here. Hell, I've got skivvies older than you, pup. :old: Probably wearing them now. :D

But yeah, I'm dealing with all this new stuff too, and it is a lot to take on, notwithstanding that we were all griping that Civ V had been "dumbed down" when it first came out. I'm working at it, but boy am I happy playing this level of complexity for a change.

I am one of those who is quickly learning that, in BNW's more demanding economy, building up too many roads nearby has hurt me badly. When I was done with my super highway system, I realized that I was paying 12 gold a turn for it and by then I was bleeding more than that every month. Had to give away some units and realized how dumb I'd been not watching all the little tables and data that Civ V gives us --- for a reason. We need to know what's going on, what is costing us, what is cost-effective and what is just plain wasteful.

So don't give up, hang in there and come back later and tell us how you're doing.
 
At Prince level you are probably not going to get overwhelmed scientifically by larger civs if you stay small try a one city approach. National Wonders are much better now that they have art and literature slots and you can sell all of you luxuries for profit
 
Thanks, guys! I started a new game, so I'll experiment with it.

Appreciate all of your help.
 
@Jon the Bastard

Thank you mate, nice post for us who don't have BNW yet.

+rep! yea, I know, that's not possible. :D
 
You seem to be missing a few core gameplay elements.

Stuff like:

*Road tiles cost 1 gold per turn each
*Connecting cities via road isn't lucrative before your capital reaches cize 5 at least
*Whenever one of your cities grows, you get +1 unhappiness
*Each unique luxury gives you +4 happiness
*You don't have to connect luxuries by road
*You can trade excess luxuries with friendly and neutral AIs at a 1:1 ratio
*You can sell luxuries to the AI for a certain amount of gold per turn

etc.pp.

BNW has a lot more options than G+K and vanilla but the core mechanics of the game are still the same.
 
Top Bottom