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I am truly sick of the AI's Ancient Era warmongering.

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by CaptainPatch, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    Your success seems to be predicated on playing ONLY for a Domination victory. That is, instead of exploring, you're building combat units and keeping them close to home. You're NOT building up the city's structures or developing your city tiles. (If you're building combat units, you're not making a Builder.) Which sort of underscores my point: The program is pushing the player towards just one style of play -- warfare. It's marginalizing all of the other aspects of the game -- Religion, Science, Culture, Diplomacy -- by making survival iffy if you don't focus on your Military.
     
  2. remconius

    remconius Deity

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    I have had this several times.

    If the AI smells blood, they will come for you. The other AI probably had a similar army to them and you were the weakers civ in terms of units.

    This means as suggested, you cannot build a couple of scouts and go on to build an empire. You need to build a standing army first, for defense and to deter the AI. If you are stronger then them they will not attack you and if they do, they will lose.... Part of a builders game in civ 6 is to build defense not just infrastructure.

    In my build order now I often start with slinger and warrior instead of scout. My initial warrior will only circle the capital but stay close for backup. Then maybe a scout, but often I am happy to explore with warriors.
     
  3. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    Now doesn't that suggest a totally illogical dissemination of Military Intelligence? The map is covered with a fog of war. Until you march a unit to someplace on the map, you don't know what you will find there. Similarly, anything that is still under that blanket -- like the size of your unmet opponents' armies and what they have been building -- is something that YOU don't know. But apparently all of the AIs know that of all their opponents, YOU have an outmatched army. Likewise, they know in advance that the other AIs are evenly matched to themselves, so it is YOU that they go charging after.

    It would be tolerable for the AIs to have more units than you on higher Difficulty settings IF it wasn't for the fact that any nearby AI civs almost invariably go "Banzai!" almost IMMEDIATELY. It forces the human to play smarter to catch up and surpass... in the LONG run. But far too often, these banzai charges end a game before it had a chance to get started. It left-handedly demonstrates that Ultimate Victory is more a matter of Good Luck at the beginning than by any application of good strategy. (In that the program did NOT drop an AI civ too close to your Start position.)
     
  4. gimper42

    gimper42 Warlord

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    I can take a fairly accurate guess as to the strength of a discovered AI's army just by looking at their military score. I would assume they do the same thing. That is how they know when you are weak and vulnerable to attack. You cry foul about realism? How realistic would it be for an early civilization to NOT overwhelm a weak neighbor? That's basically page 1 of the early civilization playbook, historically speaking. War is coming. You can be prepared or you can be enslaved.
     
  5. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    Then, for the sake of "Realism", I would suggest that it would be better to NOT post the Military value, but rather just the ranking.
     
  6. isau

    isau Deity

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    I disagree. There is a balance you have to keep. You cannot just built infrastructure, you have to balance your construction with units in order to protect yourself. That's the way it's been in every Civ game in the past as well. Maybe a little less so in Civ 6 than in previous titles, Civ 5 BNW being the possible exception due to unusual tuning.
     
  7. bite

    bite Unofficial Civilization Cartographer Moderator

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    I always find the AI will go for the weakest player, this is usually a city state, but on the higher difficulties if you have less of an army they will come for you
     
  8. gimper42

    gimper42 Warlord

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    Could not be further from the truth. A more accurate assessment would be that I intend to survive regardless of what the game decides to throw at me instead of hoping I can survive so long as nobody attacks me. How about instead of complaining that the game does not fit your ideal model of how a 4x game should be, try looking at what the game gives you and using it to your advantage? Why do you think that more than half of the items you can build in a city at any given point during the game are military units? Is that just flavor? Nope.
     
  9. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Never mind that in many cases, the best path to another victory condition lies through your opponent. I have played a few peaceful games where I don't conquer anyone else, but even if I'm going science/culture/religion, it helps if you can double your land area by capturing terrain from an opponent.
     
    gimper42 likes this.
  10. ShinigamiKenji

    ShinigamiKenji King

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    Indeed, Marathon put a lot more emphasis on unit movement than production. But still, knowing this and to completeley dismiss military in the first turns, I'd guess I'd have to either adapt my gamestyle, or change difficulty/speed.

    Trying to use the same strategy when the circumstances change isn't necessarily bound to failure, but neither to success. It's a basic premise from Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" (grab that Great Work of Art in your next game).
     
  11. CD7

    CD7 Chieftain

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    My gripe is the AI will start pointless early wars it has no change of winning. I understand the difficulty in programming an AI to actually work with 1UTP, but then surely you need to program in some simple evaluation to stop the AI declaring war against a stronger player.
     
  12. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    Not just early on. My current game --made it past the Start banzai charge -- I'm in the Modern Era with tanks and artillery, etc., and generally comfortably ahead of the other civs in every category. Which has ALL of the other civs upset. So much so that Pericles (Greece) tried to launch a surprise attack (again) using Knights, Archers, and Catapults. They were butchered by the city fortifications and then annihilated by the Tanks and Arty. Stoooopid to expect any other outcome, really. So why did Pericles do it? "If you can't beat 'em, maul 'em as you go down"? Go out with a bang? To make it more annoying, all the other civs have been Denouncing me, Greece's target, for being a warmonger. What? I'm supposed to just stand back and do nothing while an invader attacks my cities?
     
  13. gimper42

    gimper42 Warlord

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    I have run up against this. I think it only happens to me with an opposing AI that had previously DoW'd me and subsequently sued for peace. Later that civ will DoW me again, but by then I have catapulted through the tech tree and have at least a full era tech lead on them. Not to mention that their army is usually pathetically small.

    Example: I fought a bitter long early war as Rome against Scythia. She sued for peace and I took Vilnius and her only copy of horses in the deal. 20-30 turns later she DoW's me again. At this point I have at least 6 musketmen and 8 or 9 crossbows. She comes at my nearest city with 4 horse archers and 2 horsemen. I then proceeded to wipe her out. Really bad call on her part. Really, really bad.
     
  14. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    For some reason my most recent game the AI continued with the DOW's well into the information age. The final graphs at the end put the wars against me at like 33. 33 DOW's against me is a bit over the top, wouldn't you say?

    I suppose that's what I get for trying to play a "peaceful" game as England on a True Starting Location Earth map. It seems like the only alternative is to give the AI's the beat down so they don't get uppity.
     
  15. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    That doesn't always factor into their logic. If they have at least one city, as you get closer to the Finish Line and the gap between you and them widens, the more likely it seems that they will DoW you, no matter how likely it is that you can and will trounce them. And constant Denouncements goes without saying. (Except they keep saying them anyway.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
  16. dagriggstar

    dagriggstar Prince

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    What I hate is the AI declaring wars it not only has a 0% chance of winning, it has a 0% chance of there being any kind of actual warfare.

    btw in this (epic speed) game it would make 100% sense if Scythia declared war on me. But no they haven't (yet). Instead I have this war with Brazil and Russia. Why would Russia think this is a good idea ? Literally nothing can happen. Even if they send troops they are so far away I'll have more advanced troops built/upgraded before they get there.
     

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  17. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    I don't mind that. I mean, if an AI came to me and was willing to give me something to declare war against someone who I wouldn't have to fight against, I'd probably do it. Now, on the flipside, there's no reason for Brazil to bribe Russia to join in the war, so that part of the logic probably needs work.
     

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