I believe I have a good way to have an economic victory in game

[Lumpyacidfish]

Creating currencies like you can create religions, and currencies get stronger or you enforce it through underhanded means and whoever's currency is the only one used wins the game
the nuances
currencies can be backed in luxary or strategic goods, multiple ones or just a single one.
currencies can be backed by nothing if you are willing to force people to accept it using world congress, cultural supremacy, or people being afraid of you militarily
currencies function like religions in the way you select them and also you can tack on ways they work like interest rates, way its printed, and how its printed which will be translated into the bonuses it gives you
they can be founded super early or super late and when ever you want and it can be changed at the penalty of huge economic instability (people using your currency will face it too)
works like ideology where you can be pressured into changing yours and every time its changed your economic victory gets set back by a lot
currencies can be tied to other things other than resources (if you have unbacked fiat)
and future tech for currencies can lead you into crypto and culture trees can lead you into cashless society
and it can be creative too like new super future material for future cash based societies or super future culture ultra high trust society where it's back too barter
new techs for all of this, ancient era everyone starts with barter until writing
ideologies like freedom give you central banking while autocracy or order give you state banking

 

[hokath]

An intuitive idea but very ambitious.
Would require the whole package of art, UI work, systems code, integration with existing systems, and of course (like all versions) AI.
So to do this you need a whole team on board really, or one skilled guy (read: not me) with a dream.

 

[pineappledan]

imo the only way to have an economic victory feel like some sort of part of the world in a meaningful way is for a game to have some sort of debt mechanic.

You need to be able to get into debt with other civs. You need to have some way for other civs to invest in foreign civs and lend money to them in the first place. You need to create some reason for players to want to lend money like that. An economic victory would come about when you have a civ that quite literally owns enough pieces of global infrastructure that no one can stand against them without economically crippling themselves.

In order to implement an economic victory I think you would need to completely overhaul how "gold" works in a civ game as well. The ability to buy things is pulled out of the ether in civ 5 in such a way that it can't be squared with an economic victory. Everyone knows that if you just print “gold” all you will manage to do is make everything that takes production to create cost more “gold”. You also can't go into debt or have negative cash at all in civ 5; this means you can't "borrow from the future" or mishandle national wealth at all. There is no risk of crashing your economy because you can't get into a situation where you are servicing debt in excess of your budget. You also can’t tax your own citizens more or less. Gold just shows up from certain buildings or is generated from trade (does the civ 5 taxation system work solely off of tariffs?). There is no scarcity in civ 5's system because you can afford anything and build anything with enough turns. If there is no scarcity there can be no economics.

 

[Lumpyacidfish]

imo the only way to have an economic victory feel like some sort of part of the world in a meaningful way is for a game to have some sort of debt mechanic.

You need to be able to get into debt with other civs. You need to have some way for other civs to invest in foreign civs and lend money to them in the first place. You need to create some reason for players to want to lend money like that. An economic victory would come about when you have a civ that quite literally owns enough pieces of global infrastructure that no one can stand against them without economically crippling themselves.

In order to implement an economic victory I think you would need to completely overhaul how "gold" works in a civ game as well. The ability to buy things is pulled out of the ether in civ 5 in such a way that it can't be squared with an economic victory. Everyone knows that if you just print “gold” all you will manage to do is make everything that takes production to create cost more “gold”. You also can't go into debt or have negative cash at all in civ 5; this means you can't "borrow from the future" or mishandle national wealth at all. There is no risk of crashing your economy because you can't get into a situation where you are servicing debt in excess of your budget. You also can’t tax your own citizens more or less. Gold just shows up from certain buildings or is generated from trade (does the civ 5 taxation system work solely off of tariffs?). There is no scarcity in civ 5's system because you can afford anything and build anything with enough turns. If there is no scarcity there can be no economics.

the things you are explaining are why I think there should be an economic victory
hit the nail square on the head, "The ability to buy things is pulled out of the ether in civ 5"

 

[detroitrex]

the things you are explaining are why I think there should be an economic victory
hit the nail square on the head, "The ability to buy things is pulled out of the ether in civ 5"

yes, but your proposal doesn't address any of that.

 

[cammcken]

Civ is already an economic game at its core, in that the food, production, and gold/science/culture produced on one turn is reinvested into pops, buildings, cities, and techs, which enable producing even more food, production, and gold/science/culture in later turns. The cycle never ends. The economic-minded leader will choose the investments that provide the best rate of return, and hope to choose better than his rivals.

The science and culture victory conditions were added to establish an arbitrary finish line and provide an output for those economic gains, other than self-perpetuation.

Lumpyacidfish, from your proposal, it sounds like you want to add a financial system and monetary policy to Civ, which most games decline to simulate because its easier to simulate the economy in real terms (e.g. food, production, and commerce). It's ambitious but potentially interesting. I think a working system should be implemented first before anyone needs to consider making a victory condition from it.

If you want an example, I recommend trying Victoria 3 (learn the base game first) then downloading the "Economic and Financial Mod". I'm too intimidated to try it myself but it looks very thorough.

 

[Lumpyacidfish]

Civ is already an economic game at its core, in that the food, production, and gold/science/culture produced on one turn is reinvested into pops, buildings, cities, and techs, which enable producing even more food, production, and gold/science/culture in later turns. The cycle never ends. The economic-minded leader will choose the investments that provide the best rate of return, and hope to choose better than his rivals.

The science and culture victory conditions were added to establish an arbitrary finish line and provide an output for those economic gains, other than self-perpetuation.

Lumpyacidfish, from your proposal, it sounds like you want to add a financial system and monetary policy to Civ, which most games decline to simulate because its easier to simulate the economy in real terms (e.g. food, production, and commerce). It's ambitious but potentially interesting. I think a working system should be implemented first before anyone needs to consider making a victory condition from it.

If you want an example, I recommend trying Victoria 3 (learn the base game first) then downloading the "Economic and Financial Mod". I'm too intimidated to try it myself but it looks very thorough.

you know what you are talking about and yeah a financial system sounds fun that's why I want it
but I'm not touching victoria 3