I can't increase the armageddon counter.

[WarKirby]

I'm playing a game as the infernals for the first time. As luck would have it, after my initial period playing as the Sheiam, until I researched Infernal Pact, Hyborem spawned right next to the Sheiam empire, and I immediately began annexing it as soon as I changed over.

From there, I've used hyborem, rosier, mardero, and meshabber, as well as a horsehockyLOAD of ritualists, to basically go out on a huge conquering spree. I keep cities that are next to mana nodes, and just burn the rest. So I was thinking the armageddon counter should be skyrocketing by now.

But after annihilating two empires, it's only at 15. And I looked again a few turns later, and it was only 14. It was about then I realised what's going on.

Normally, the AC goes up whena city is razed. But if that city contains Ashen Veil, it goes down, instead. Since I pretty much ruched Corruption of Spirit while palying the Sheiam, AV spread to all my neighbors quickly, and became pretty much the de facto world religion, aside from a few Order holdouts here and there. After annexing the AV holy city as Hyborem, I built Stigmata on the Unborn, which has only farther increased the spreading.

Now, no matter how many people I slaughter, despite leading an army of demons and hellspawn across the land, I'm actually doing GOOD. This just doesn't seem right.

I'm thinking maybe, the "AC decreases when razing an AV city" effect, should only happen for good and neutral civs, not evil ones. Or perhaps the iinfernals need some unique mechanic of their own for raising the AC, since doing so is more beneficial to them than anyone else

 

[Methuselah]

Normally, the AC goes up whena city is razed. But if that city contains Ashen Veil, it goes down, instead. Since I pretty much ruched Corruption of Spirit while palying the Sheiam, AV spread to all my neighbors quickly, and became pretty much the de facto world religion, aside from a few Order holdouts here and there. After annexing the AV holy city as Hyborem, I built Stigmata on the Unborn, which has only farther increased the spreading.

Which is why you *don't* spread AV when trying to go for 100 AC, or make sure some other religions are spread first.

I'm thinking maybe, the "AC decreases when razing an AV city" effect, should only happen for good and neutral civs, not evil ones. Or perhaps the iinfernals need some unique mechanic of their own for raising the AC, since doing so is more beneficial to them than anyone else

Not all evil civs seek to raise the AC. You are burning down a city of evil people. Regardless who does the burning, they're still dead, less evil people, lower AC.

Infernals could do with a ritual like the Sheaim's however.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

how did you get Meshabber with AC at 15? he needs AC 70 to be built :\

 

[Methuselah]

how did you get Meshabber with AC at 15? he needs AC 70 to be built :\

If you remember in the first release of 0.40, he only required 7 due to a glitch. It's possible warkirby hasn't updated.

 

[WarKirby]

I'm not using the most up to date version, yes.

Although requiring an AC of 70 makes me not want to update He's hard enough to build with the 3350

Which is why you *don't* spread AV when trying to go for 100 AC, or make sure some other religions are spread first.

This makes No Sense At All
Why would you NOT want to spread the most evil, world ending religion, when you're trying to turn the world into hell ? It just Doesn't Make Sense

Whether there's AV in a city or not, it's pretty unlikely every single person in that city eats babies and sells their grandmother into slavery. There must be some good people here or there, even within an evil society. Also, killing evil people would send more evil souls to hell, so shouldn't that make the influence of hell even stronger ?

And in any case, I didn't spread it. It just happened naturally. Couldn't afford to wait, because I had to get infernal pact ASAP so I could build Rosier with Hyborem before anyone beat me to it.


Maybe it would be best if, rather than dropping the AC for razing the city, you would drop the AC by capturing it, then using an inquisition to purge Ashen Veil from it.

 

[Methuselah]

This makes No Sense At All
Why would you NOT want to spread the most evil, world ending religion, when you're trying to turn the world into hell ? It just Doesn't Make Sense

Neither do some of the other things in the mod. Such as why can you use resources that you lack the knowledge for, Basium having to kill good people and so forth.

Maybe it would be best if, rather than dropping the AC for razing the city, you would drop the AC by capturing it, then using an inquisition to purge Ashen Veil from it.

I thinking purging AV already drops the AC. Not sure though.

 

[WarKirby]

Basium having to kill good people and so forth.

Well, I think this makes sense personally.

For a non mortal being like Basium, I'd imagine death wouldn't really mean much. If a good person dies, they're going to become an angel anyway. It has a direct good benefit for the world.

Think, religious martyrs.

 

[Methuselah]

Lore-wise it may make sense, but when most of your combat line pretty much relies on you getting angels, it'd be nice if they were perhaps a bit easier to get and didn't rely on you slaying any potential friends.

 

[WarKirby]

Lore-wise it may make sense, but when most of your combat line pretty much relies on you getting angels, it'd be nice if they were perhaps a bit easier to get and didn't rely on you slaying any potential friends.

This gives me a neat idea.

Maybe, with the same tech that allows building Mercurian Gate (I forgot what it was), an improvement could be allowed for good civs, something like Temple of Sacrifice. Similar to the demon's altar, it would allow good civs to sacrifice military units, which would then join the Mercurians, perhaps with a little more bonus xp.

To encourage a civ to use it, it could give a bit of research, and a temporary happiness bonus in the city, when you sacrifice a unit.

Perhaps sacrificing units in it could give positive diplomatic penalties with the mercurians too.

 

[Bitwise]

From the Mercurian point of view good civs who refuse to war on evil are better off dead at Mercurian hands, their souls redeemed and sent on to fight. Those who are already at war will die at the enemies hands and strengthen the Mercurians.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

When you want to raise AC you have many options.

1)Spread Ashen Veil. Do not burn AV cities, burn the rest.A city with AV is +1 to AC, so, if all civs have AV, you should get a pretty high AC, soon enough.
2)Build units on the city that has the Prophesy of Ragnarok! Every unit build there is +1 to AC
3)Destroy the Elohim, if present, even if they are AV. I would suggest, conquering their AV cities and gifting them to the Shaeim, or, if possible, creating a colony out of them.
4)There are specific units and heroes that raise the AC. Build them.

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A note on Basium. Basium can build living units, which, when they die, become angels. So, Basium players shouldn't have to attack good civs to get Angels.
I am not sure if the Infernals can build any living unit, if they can, the same strategy can be applied.
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[MagisterCultuum]

I am not sure if the Infernals can build any living unit, if they can, the same strategy can be applied.

Demon is the Infernal Default race and it makes units non-living, so that pretty much means they cannot build living units. There are however a few exceptions. Default races are not applied to world units (or to units that start with other racial promotions), so they can build living heroes. Since they cannot adopt any religion but AV, I believe the only living units available to them are Rosier the Fallen, Baron Duin Halfmorn, Mary Morbus, and Gaelen, and the last 2 can't be built but come only from some rare events. If the Infernals could adopt other religions they could easily get lots of living Soldiers of Kilmorph, but they would have a good religion and so go to serve the Mercurians instead of the Infernals in their next life. While any living unit belonging to the Mercurians returns as an Angel (even if it also returns as an Infernal Mane), living units belonging to the Infernals will not return unless they have an evil religion, Death I, or Entropy I.

 

[Nor'easter]

I'm not using the most up to date version, yes.

Although requiring an AC of 70 makes me not want to update He's hard enough to build with the 3350

The AC 7/70 thing for Meshabber was fixed back in patch a. You've installed none of the patches, then? Wow.

I know Kael has in the past asked that people not post issues arising in games under older patches. In this case, I doubt that it's helpful for the team to be receiving feedback based on a game from 16 patches ago.