[BTS] I did it! I won my first Immortal Game!!!

[CGQ]

I finally did it! Today I finally won a game on Immortal! How did I do it?

Spoiler Recap of the game :

On a normal continents map with normal settings, no huts/events with Asoka.

The start was actually pretty nice, lots of cottages, gold and pigs 2N of settler:



I met Arabia about 5 turns in and his borders were very close by. I saw corn nearby and thought I could steal a worker.
My warrior camps in the woods, waiting for his perfect chance to strike!


The workers start working on Sally's corn and then...


Hehehe...


Being a fast worker he trekked back to our capital. Since there's no other food source besides the pigs, the worker farmed the FP's while we waited for our worker in the capital. Afterwards he went in and helped finish them:


Normally FP's take 7 turns to finish but with two workers it took 3-4 turns. I teched AH for the pigs and hopefully horses.

My goal here was to build a settler as quick as possible to settle 1N of pigs on hills to grab more FP's and share them with capital. No doubt sally's gonna try to get that spot first!


I grabbed the spot and built roads in anticipation of 3rd settler. AH revealed horses and with gold in the capital this map is screaming for HA rush. I teched BW after, then pottery to cottage the FP's, then Writing>Horseback Riding.
I build some stables while I waited for Hunting>Archery, then I went ALPHA.

With 4 cities, I whipped and chopped 10 HA's:


900 BC I started my HA rush:


I feel 900 BC is already late but I haven't the first clue how to do a HA rush earlier than that. HB Riding takes so long to tech even with gold and then there's other techs.

500 BC Turn 95 the last Persian city was captured. Sally is dead:


I got BUREAU at Turn 110, my earliest ever. First GS built Academy in Capital:





State of Empire at 25 BC:


Since I got music first, I used GA for Gold Age after teching PHIL quickly. I founded Confucianism and Korea actually converted to it so I did too. I teched Nationalism, partially bulbed EDU, then went gunpowder. I had marble, so I used it to build some wonders for fail-gold. I finished the Great Library for the scientists.
225 AD Turn 124:

(Note, I had auto production turned on and couldn't realize why Bombay kept building the courthouse until I realized it.)

I started building Taj Mahal, Teched Compass, then got another GS to bulb Liberalism and popped MT Tradition. Turn 139 I got another GS and partially bulbed Printing Press. I start whipping and building Cuirs:


It took a while to build Cuirs since I had so much cottaged land I didn't want to whip away.

960 AD, Turn 158 I declared on Native Americans (Sitting Bull) with 25-30 Cuirs:


I beelined to Rifling and upgraded my Cuirs to Calvary.

At this point, I was 1 turn from Taj Mahal so I delayed it, since Sitting bull had the MoM close by:


MoM was captured and Taj Mahal was finished for a 12-Turn gold age:


1200 AD I wiped Sitting Bull off the face of the Earth. After that I went after Zara of Ethiopia:


I captured his stupid AP palace, and then at 1450 AD he capitulated to me. Then I went for Wang Kong, who capitulated in 1590 AD. At this point I have an army of over 80 Calvary and 11 blimps. I built about two dozen Galleons and went to the other continent to capture Ragnar.

In 1745 AD, Ragnar capitulates, and after 1 more of his cities come out of revolts, I get domination victory:


What do you think? It wasn't easy and I admit I reloaded a couple times at some points (like Sally taking my spot taught me to be faster with my settler early on) and other times that I lost fatally or got captured. One day I will win without reloading and I don't know if when you guys play you reload or play it in one go.

I attached several save games at several points. I have a save for nearly every turn of this game so if there's any other turns I will post them here by request

 

[FlyinJohnnyL]

Congratulations! On to Deity....

On a side note, I just read about Asoka last night in Ann Druyan's version of Cosmos. He was one of the few leaders I didn't know much about, what a story! Who knows how much is true (we can say that about any of the leaders from more than 100 years ago), but it's quite the read.

As to your question about reloading, I don't generally reload in games I intend to play out. I only reload when trying out different ideas where I know I will abandon the game (which is most of the time unfortuantely). However, I think it's helpful to reload-the games take a long time to play, and how else are you going to learn the optimal strategy for turn 120?

 

[lymond]

Sally of Persia? I think someone needs to learn who the Persians were....

Congrats on a good Immortal win.

Reloading ok to adjust strategies while learning, but not simply due to RNG stuff. No I don't reload except maybe misclicks which I'm prone to do like with workers.

 

[dankok8]

@CGQ

Congrats on your win!

I reload if I feel like I won't benefit from prior knowledge. For example if I play till 1000 BC scout my neighbour and see that he has no metal nearby then if I replay and beeline Iron Working and wipe him out with Swords, that feels cringy. I don't do that. But for example if I want to build Pyramids and accidentally forget to research Masonry I will reload and retrace all my other steps. Sometimes I will reload due to RNG if it's ridiculously unfair. Like in a recent game, I lost 4 Keshiks to a single Archer in a hill city.

 

[CGQ]

@CGQ

Congrats on your win!

I reload if I feel like I won't benefit from prior knowledge. For example if I play till 1000 BC scout my neighbour and see that he has no metal nearby then if I replay and beeline Iron Working and wipe him out with Swords, that feels cringy. I don't do that. But for example if I want to build Pyramids and accidentally forget to research Masonry I will reload and retrace all my other steps. Sometimes I will reload due to RNG if it's ridiculously unfair. Like in a recent game, I lost 4 Keshiks to a single Archer in a hill city.

Yup, I'm aware of that when it comes to reloading and I always try to retrace my steps. When the RNG is ridiculous then I also reload. Notable examples of those are:

- Losing 25% fortified woodsman I or II warrior on forested hill to one stupid archer.
- When one of my cities way up north gets captured by an AI when I'm rushing them (My fault since sometimes I didn't pay attention)
- Losing 99% odds attack. Yes that's actually happened. Many many times as I'm taking a city I win 2-3 20-30% odd battles then LOSE the next 60-70% one.
- Losing my only warrior to a bear.
- Accidentally declaring war on the wrong AI (Declaring on my only Friendly AI instead of the annoyed dude)
- AI beating me to settling a key spot.
- If I get beat to a wonder (like MoM last game) I'm a good sport about it and don't reload, since I have fail-gold, and know I'm gonna capture it later anyways.
- When I'm pissed about the game in general and feel it's not up to my "standards."
- Miss-clicks and civic problems.
- When Monty looks at me the wrong way.
- When an AI is at war with the AI I'm rushing then he capitulates to them which drags them into war with me, (all my army is deep into my initial target AI and not at home so RIP to my cities) effectively ruining my game.

And my personal favorite:

- Having my best game ever? BPT is higher than ever, things are good and life is amazing! Except...oh. Powerful military neighbor next to me is plotting? Orange fist? Well he's pleased with me, and annoyed + worst enemy of a neighbor next to him. They're different religions and he hates his guts! Plus we're trading, we're the same religion and I've even given him help and tribute, Okay so it seems pretty obvious who he's going after. He's got nothing against me or anything so it's all good.

* A few turns later*

DODODODODODO DO-DOOOOOHM!

Yeah, Automatic reload. To like the beginning of the whole game...

I definitely have a problem with reloads

 

[Fippy]

Those are way too many reload scenarios (which will not make you happy longterm), for example stuff like losing warriors to bears.
They are decisions that can be made before risking moves, esp on diffs below deity.

 

[CGQ]

Those are way too many reload scenarios (which will not make you happy longterm), for example stuff like losing warriors to bears.
They are decisions that can be made before risking moves, esp on diffs below deity.

I definitely need to fix this habit. I want to do a shadow game here but instead make it a YouTube livestream and some of you give me advice as I play the game. I always wanted to do that

 

[SittinDown]

I play with the HOF mod and Locked - Modified - Assets, which I picked up as a habit to fix this bad habit years ago.

 

[dankok8]

I definitely need to fix this habit. I want to do a shadow game here but instead make it a YouTube livestream and some of you give me advice as I play the game. I always wanted to do that

It's not a bad habit to reload in general. I like to play this game in a loose way and not be stressed about which tile I'm working and stuff so I will reload when I forget something or misclick.

But yes reloading after losing a Warrior to a Bear is bad in a sense because you won't fix the mistake that lead to it. You should keep your units out of any risky fights early on in the game including barbs. I remember a game I played on the forum last year... I lost an Archer defending a city (and the city itself) to a barb Warrior which had ~1% odds of happening. I still remember it because I didn't reload that time and actually ended up winning by domination. Even though that situation probably warranted a reload and wasn't risky. A Warrior on a forested hill against an Archer is risky and you should avoid in the first place... because that Warrior has ~20% chance of dying. You should be moving it away because it will die relatively often.

 

[Snowbird]

I
But yes reloading after losing a Warrior to a Bear is bad in a sense because you won't fix the mistake that lead to it.

What is "correct way" then? Not to move warriors while barb animals are present?

 

[drewisfat]

I got a code. I do reload, but only for micro mistakes, not for RNG. The game to me is all about decisions, which splits two ways. I'm to be held accountable for decisions but also am fully entitled to all the info and opportunity to make the decision. A common reload for me is something like planning to max overflow but overshooting it a turn and winding up with a 1 pop whip no OF. I will reload that. I won't reload because a barb just 1% killed me. (There's a reason I like TGW).

I'll also reload if I just didn't "see" something that I was entitled to see to make a proper decision. Last night I reloaded after losing a city because I saw one barb archer next to it not two. I literally had a warrior prebuilt to 1 turn remaining and decided to continue with my other build, because the city was safe with two units in it already

I rarely play sober, and I'm already a slow player. It's a big timesaver for me to play somewhat quickly and reload a few times a game than to check literally everything every turn. I'm not a streamer, and the HoF mod has never worked for me, so I play for an audience of one. On the other hand, I think reloading to "fix" RNG is a trap you can't come out of as it distorts how you assess barbs, wars, and GPP pollution.

 

[dankok8]

What is "correct way" then? Not to move warriors while barb animals are present?

if a bear just pops out in front of my unit and kills it I don't reload. That's a risk you take when you explore.

But generally you try to avoid the fight. Stay on defensive terrain when possible and if you see an animal get away from it instead of fortifying and hoping for the best. Not every unit lost to barbs is a mistake or a result of suboptimal play but I would venture a guess that at least some are avoidable.

 

[SittinDown]

• Moving your warrior onto < 50% defensive bonus tiles is always a big risk. Even forested hills is not a guarantee against bears. Low difficulty levels give you 'free' wins against the barbs. But this means you have harsh lessons to learn about scouting as you move up in levels.
  
• Not healing after a battle (and on good defensive tile, so you don't get killed by a wolf or jaguar you can't see when you're at .3 health).

I didn't quite get it myself until I watched Lain's videos and started playing immortal or higher a lot. If you lose a couple warriors on those levels, your fog-busting breaks down and then it's usually a snowball effect to an early loss. I lost a bunch of high-level games early on just because of bad barbarian management until I got the hang of it. Fortunately, when you lose that fast, you get to try again pretty quickly.

 

[SittinDown]

or if you have a scout - double moving them every turn for scouting.... usually results in a dead scout sooner or later.

 

[Oaq]

Sometimes I will reload due to RNG if it's ridiculously unfair. Like in a recent game, I lost 4 Keshiks to a single Archer in a hill city.

How others play is no business of mine, but since it is mentioned here: the occasional ridiculous RNG is part of the game. The improbable is not the impossible. I might restart; I would not reload.

About once in 300 tries, a 99.7% attack will fail. Or two consecutive 95% attacks will fail, etc. And if two consecutive 99.7% attacks fail, why, it's just not your day.

 

[dankok8]

How others play is no business of mine, but since it is mentioned here: the occasional ridiculous RNG is part of the game. The improbable is not the impossible. I might restart; I would not reload.

About once in 300 tries, a 99.7% attack will fail. Or two consecutive 95% attacks will fail, etc. And if two consecutive 99.7% attacks fail, why, it's just not your day.

If you played MP and had an enemy Warrior take out a Warrior defending your capital with like 10% odds (let alone 1%) and take you out of the game, you'd look at it differently. Bad RNG later in the game is no big deal (like losing two 99.7% battles in the Renaissance) but in the early turns losing a city to barbarians or losing 4 Keshiks attacking a single Archer can mean you instantly lose the game.

Of course on the flip side of the coin, you can be remarkably lucky as well and for instance succeed in a city attack you had no business in succeeding. But no one ever complains about that...

 

[FlyinJohnnyL]

If you lose a bad RNG battle early in the game though-it's no big loss. You haven't invested much time yet, count it as a loss and move on to the next game.

But above all else-play however you want. It's a 15 year old game that people still enjoy. So enjoy it, however the heck you play. I have friends that still play it on noble level, even after all these years, and they still have fun with it.

 

[lymond]

@CGQ Start playing BOTMs and HOF games. That will cure you have your reloading . .....I'm still stuck on Saladin of Persia

 

[Fippy]

Depends on how high you value that warrior for fogbusting (or something else, as mentioned ).
Lain videos are great to see how careful he moves his early units.
If you take a risky step basically be prepared for an unpleasant fight, reloading here gives you risk-free moving.
Everybody can play as they want, but me i got unhappy in those times where i still used reloads..feels like a much bigger achievement without.

 

[lymond]

Constant reloading does indeed suck the life outta the game. BOTM/HOF games can be so intense cause every move matters. Reloading simply not allowed.