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I don't see why a civ would break a research agreement

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Some guy, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    No it isn't. There are more than two players in Civ. This would be like 10 player chess where 2 players lose their queens and the other 8 don't. Obviously, those two players are now at a disadvantage - not to each other but to everyone else.
     
  2. Abraxis

    Abraxis Emperor

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    good point, still though, if it's an acceptable disadvantage to you, it may still be worth your while to put them at a disadvantage
     
  3. alpaca

    alpaca King of Ungulates

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    Who said anything about free techs? Research agreements yield a research boost (I think 15%) to the two participating civs for a flat cost in gold. From the manual:

     
  4. 12agnar0k

    12agnar0k Emperor

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    Indeed,

    Why would they do it,

    Cost you gold
    Cost you a free tech you paid your gold to get
    Pretend to be your friend, make you unawares to the attack to come, (a very human thing to do)

    Basically what my brother says, it doesn't matter if it costs them to do it, the idea behind it is to make you pay, hurting themselfs to spite you. Its very human and thats what we want the AI to be like. Hopefully this is shown in ways other than just on Research agreements, you know with asking you to declare war on the most powerful enemy in the game and entering into war with you, just to declare peace 10 turns later, they've tricked you, thats what its about, hurting you no matter the cost to themselfs, its comparable to destroying your chances of winning a game by building a huge army putting your science to 0, and then using this force to just destroy someone elses chance of winning.
     
  5. B-29 Bomber

    B-29 Bomber Prince

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    You'd think the research agreement would last until the tech is researched.
     
  6. Abraxis

    Abraxis Emperor

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    Actually, after some more thought, this wouldn't be a disadvantage for you.

    the longevity of a war is proportional to how much gold you have, in theory. what with supply and upgrading toops.

    If you're going to go to war with someone, taking a chunk out of both reserves first should mean a quicker war (fewer units, lower quality units, and the sooner attrition will cause an end by either treaty or annihilation).

    A quicker war means you're wasting fewer turns dedicating your economy to your military, rather then... a better economy, like every other civ that wasn't involved in the war.

    Think of it like, if you hadn't wasted that gold first, the war may have dragged on another 20 turns or so, to the same effect, as there would have been more resistance on either side.
     
  7. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    Actually, no, I would rephrase this.

    Imagine that no one of those 10 teams has a queen.

    When you enter a research pact, both those teams get a queen during the pact.

    As soon as the pact ends, you both lose your queen. The longer your pact lasts, and the more time you have your queen for, the more advantage the two pact teams get over the other 8 teams.
     
  8. ilikepies

    ilikepies Warlord

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    If they have more money than you and they're willing to pay to cripple your economy, if they find an amazing opportunity to attack that won't last for 30 more turns, or if you do something else to aggravate them like attacking an ally.
     
  9. Necro-

    Necro- Chieftain

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    i can see many reasons for doing this, but as was said the prime reason would be to deplete someones coffers, especially with the new uses for gold, a broken pact could be the difference between them getting that iron tile or not being able to afford it!
     
  10. GoodSarmatian

    GoodSarmatian Jokerfied Western Male

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    Every review and preview except the first ones. I wouldn't trust the manual over recent previews, it's full of outdated and contradictory data.
     
  11. SeptimusOctopus

    SeptimusOctopus Warlord

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    It was in Greg's gameplay video last week, I think.
     
  12. Giant Dwarf

    Giant Dwarf Chieftain

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    I imagine this type of back stab to come about from a few situations. One, a civ acts like it's trying to better relations but is building it's war machine. I forsee that happening a lot in multiplayer: you've had a bad 1000 years but a player acts like he wants to be your friend again. Two, if you're in a war with civ A's friend, civ B may offer up a pact and then break it, indirectly costing you a war by emptying your treasury. I don't see a strong player entering a RP while he's also in a war, but it's a possibility if he is trying to get a military tech.
     
  13. King Jason

    King Jason Fleece-bearer

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    This guy:
     
  14. Geek113377

    Geek113377 Human (Usually)

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    The only reason i can think to break a research agreement would be if someone was offering more gold than you would lose from breaking it to break it, or they were offering you a tech.
     
  15. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    It's kind of economic attack. As with military attack you sacrifice something for hurting another player, but in contrast you can't get cities - only hurt someone.

    That's an option for stopping leading civ if you have better economy.
     
  16. bernlin2000

    bernlin2000 Prince

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    I've seen this mentioned before (AI breaking research agreements), but don't they invest the same amount of gold into the agreement as the human player? How is that to their advantage to break an agreement. It sounds like Firaxis simply decided to add a "smash head with keyboard" factor to the game :sad:
     
  17. bernlin2000

    bernlin2000 Prince

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    But what will you kill them with, perfection? :D
     
  18. CTH

    CTH Prince

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    Lets say that it cost 300 gold for a research agreement, if the AI makes 50 gold per turn and you makes 10, the 300 gold would not be relatively as important to the AI as it is to you. The AI can afford to lose 300 gold, you can't and the AI knows this.

    I could imagine that there is scenarios where breaking the agreement just before a new tech is acquired could be beneficial, one player counts on that he will get a free tech and have planned for it the last 10 turns or so while the AI only has planned to destroy the player :) However, I think that it is more profitable (most of the time) for the AI to make an agreement and then cancel it the next turn and then attack the player.
     
  19. Scramble

    Scramble Warlord

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    Think about it.

    I have 1000 gold
    You have 300 gold

    We both put 300 gold on the table for research.
    30% of my gold
    100% of yours.

    Now I have a choice... My gold could have been spent to get us both research, or it could be spent on directly draining your treasury.
    Remember that breaking a research agreement never costs you any more than it costs them, and if you break it, they lose exactly the same as you did, so if you plan it ahead of time then technically there is no loss for breaking it.
     
  20. City Builder

    City Builder Complicated Complication

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    Nevermind, it was a stupid question.
     

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