[Vanilla] I don't think I'll ever be able to get into Civ VI.

CivAddict2013

Warlord
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May 4, 2013
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I've tried game after game, but I just don't think I can get into Civ VI. At least not against the AI. Civ V BNW had its issues, but I prefer it to Civ VI any day. My biggest problem is it seems like no matter how much work you put into something; you're behind the AI. If I have 5 campus cities, each will 2 specialists on the University, I'm still behind the AI or just barely ahead.

In Civilization V if I put a lot of work into science, I could easily get far ahead of the AI in science. But In this game, it feels like even if you put tons of work into science; the AI is either ahead or on par with you.

Then there's the barbarians. Now, I've learned to deal with the barbarians in Civ VI. But one thing I've noticed is that overall, the barbarians don't seem to affect the AI that much. Whenever I have barbarians on; the AI is still able to sprawl a ton of cities. It just doesn't seem that worth it to deal with barbarians, when the AI seems to be basically unaffected by them.

Overall, it just seems like even if you put in a lot of work into something; you're either behind or just barely ahead of the AI in it. I'd rather go back to Civilization V where if I put a lot of effort into science; I would be far ahead of the AI.

The AI can simultaneously have the top religion, science and culture. But as the player, it seems impossible to do. If you're ahead in science, you're behind in religion. If you're ahead in religion, you're behind in science. Just seems impossible to be simultaneously top in religion, science and culture like the AI.
 

CaesarCS

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
29
My recommendation is: unless you are specifically going for a religious victory, ignore religion. It's sad that such a major component of the game can safely be ignored, but it can. Keep track and make sure that another Civ isn't close to a religious victory, but in my experience, the AI seems to get about 3/4 of the Civs they need to convert, and then stall there.

Also, you may need to do an early war to give yourself some space, and take out a potential tough opponent. Korea, for example, is a major science producer, and I almost always DOW them and wipe them off the map. Do it early enough, and you should still be able to make friends/allies with some other civs.

Lastly, Civ VI, at least as it currently is, may just not be your thing. I have about 150 hours into Civ V with BNW, and they were a pretty forced 150 hours. I have over 500 into Civ VI. I've come to realize that, while I absolutely prefer Civ V graphics (it really is a gorgeous game), I love Civ VI gameplay, and I've been playing Civ since Civ I. Anyway, those are my thoughts, make of 'em what you will.
 

Archon_Wing

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Actually, that's just completely false. On Prince where everything is equal, it is trivially easy to pass the AI in science. Up to Emperor, you can get a decisive lead in everything by the mid-game. As for the last 2 levels, well, that's kind of the whole point of high difficulty levels for this series but most good players will have a unbeatable tech lead by the end of the game there too.
 

Victoria

Regina
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My biggest problem is it seems like no matter how much work you put into something; you're behind the AI. If I have 5 campus cities,
You must be doing something wrong, even on deity you can race ahead. Here are the key points

1. Early war taking at least 1 neighbour is enough to win. You get the eurekas off their land and preface cities and you got extra cities without increasing settler costs.

2. Settle cities first before growing them. Place your first district down ASAP but getting army and settlers out first is more important.

3. Chopping is the secret. Read the chopping example in my signature, it is enlightening if you have not already. It was done before Magnus, include Magnus and you are chopping in the few strong wonders.

4. As many eurekas as possible.

Only exception to these is get a builder early for the agoge eureka to get a cheaper army and get a settler early.
 

CivAddict2013

Warlord
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
218
My recommendation is: unless you are specifically going for a religious victory, ignore religion. It's sad that such a major component of the game can safely be ignored, but it can. Keep track and make sure that another Civ isn't close to a religious victory, but in my experience, the AI seems to get about 3/4 of the Civs they need to convert, and then stall there.

Also, you may need to do an early war to give yourself some space, and take out a potential tough opponent. Korea, for example, is a major science producer, and I almost always DOW them and wipe them off the map. Do it early enough, and you should still be able to make friends/allies with some other civs.

Lastly, Civ VI, at least as it currently is, may just not be your thing. I have about 150 hours into Civ V with BNW, and they were a pretty forced 150 hours. I have over 500 into Civ VI. I've come to realize that, while I absolutely prefer Civ V graphics (it really is a gorgeous game), I love Civ VI gameplay, and I've been playing Civ since Civ I. Anyway, those are my thoughts, make of 'em what you will.
Hmm, ignoring religion might work, I might have to try that in my next game. Generally in the early game though, I do go to war with the AI and try to get some extra cities. In my last game it was Gorgo. I dealt with the barbarians, took a few cities, made a lot of campuses and yet I still see Gorgo running away in science, culture and religion. But yeah, I'll definitely ignore religion.


Actually, that's just completely false. On Prince where everything is equal, it is trivially easy to pass the AI in science. Up to Emperor, you can get a decisive lead in everything by the mid-game. As for the last 2 levels, well, that's kind of the whole point of high difficulty levels for this series but most good players will have a unbeatable tech lead by the end of the game there too.
Well what am I doing wrong? I pop a bunch of cities and I put campuses in each of them. Then I build a university in all of those campus cities, yet I'm barely making more science than most of the AI's. It seems that before I get Research Labs that I'm behind in science no matter how hard I try. In Civilization V, it was just a matter of building high pop cities and rushing universities and research labs. Even with 4 cities, you could easily be an era ahead of the AI; even on Emperor.


You must be doing something wrong, even on deity you can race ahead. Here are the key points

1. Early war taking at least 1 neighbour is enough to win. You get the eurekas off their land and preface cities and you got extra cities without increasing settler costs.

2. Settle cities first before growing them. Place your first district down ASAP but getting army and settlers out first is more important.

3. Chopping is the secret. Read the chopping example in my signature, it is enlightening if you have not already. It was done before Magnus, include Magnus and you are chopping in the few strong wonders.

4. As many eurekas as possible.

Only exception to these is get a builder early for the agoge eureka to get a cheaper army and get a settler early.
I might try your advice and completely take out a neighbor. Maybe my problem is that I just take a few of the neighbors cities instead of completely wiping them out. I might also try to build more military.

Hmm, I might look up the chopping guide and get Eurekas too.
 
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I might try your advice and completely take out a neighbor. Maybe my problem is that I just take a few of the neighbors cities instead of completely wiping them out. I might also try to build more military.

Hmm, I might look up the chopping guide and get Eurekas too.

While conquering and chopping make things easier, neither is really necessary to overcome the challenges you've mentioned.

My suggestions are:
  • Focus on eurekas and inspirations, especially in the early game. It will be fairly rare in the Classical or Ancient Era that you would ever want to hard build any tech or civic before you get the boost.
  • Get to Political Philosophy as quick as you can. The Policy slots really help. This is important enough to ignore the prior suggestion about inspirations if you can get to Political Philosophy faster without them.
  • Focus on Science and Culture yields primarily, Money, Faith and Production yields second (and roughly in that order), and Food last. Unlike in Civ 5, you don't need a lot of people in your cities to have a thriving empire in Civ 6. Trade routes in particular should be directed with this in mind.
  • People don't matter much, but Districts and Buildings do. Having more people in a city allows you to build more Districts, but cost Amenities, whereas having more cities with fewer people gives as many Districts as long as you have room to place the cities themselves. Don't get suckered into thinking that cities should have access to water. Pack as many cities into your available territory as possible, and pump out as many Settlers as possible as quick as possible without impacting your ability to defend yourself and hit eurekas/inspirations.
  • Run projects. Unless you're building a Settler, a Monument, a Campus, a District that supports your victory condition, a Tier 1 building, or something you need to hit a eureka/inspiration, odds are you should be running a Project instead. Builders and Traders you should probably be buying with gold while you continue to run Projects.
  • Until you can consistently catch up in science and culture, ignore religion. It's totally optional.
 

Archon_Wing

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Well what am I doing wrong? I pop a bunch of cities and I put campuses in each of them. Then I build a university in all of those campus cities, yet I'm barely making more science than most of the AI's. It seems that before I get Research Labs that I'm behind in science no matter how hard I try. In Civilization V, it was just a matter of building high pop cities and rushing universities and research labs. Even with 4 cities, you could easily be an era ahead of the AI; even on Emperor.

That comes down to how much is a "bunch." That would be 10+ cities on the low end here.

Also, are you placing them for adjacency bonuses? Also, it depends on running science boosting policies and are you getting Eureka and Great Scientists through running projects. It's not even necessary to be ahead in Science Per Turn as a result to be technically ahead in science.

I don't even build Research Labs in my games and I usually play Emperor; I think they're a waste of production. Even for my pair of Deity wins, I only built them to get higher numbers for my final screenshots.And most better players finish about 100 turns faster than i do.

The game does favor ICS to a certain degree, as unlike V, there's like no good % based science modifiers. My guess is your problem is that you're trying to play it like Civ 5 and spacing cities apart for maximal yields when the game wants you to squeeze a bunch of cities together to make as many campuses as possible. I gotta concede that is a little dull.
 
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Sherlock

Just one more turn...
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I like the original post a lot, that's been my experience too. I think the AI is getting much better starting locations than I am and I find it really hard to keep up until the first war. Then their inability to use units let's me clobber the other Civs.
 

kb27787

Deity
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Aug 16, 2013
Messages
2,102
Hmm, ignoring religion might work, I might have to try that in my next game. Generally in the early game though, I do go to war with the AI and try to get some extra cities. In my last game it was Gorgo. I dealt with the barbarians, took a few cities, made a lot of campuses and yet I still see Gorgo running away in science, culture and religion. But yeah, I'll definitely ignore religion.



Well what am I doing wrong? I pop a bunch of cities and I put campuses in each of them. Then I build a university in all of those campus cities, yet I'm barely making more science than most of the AI's. It seems that before I get Research Labs that I'm behind in science no matter how hard I try. In Civilization V, it was just a matter of building high pop cities and rushing universities and research labs. Even with 4 cities, you could easily be an era ahead of the AI; even on Emperor.



I might try your advice and completely take out a neighbor. Maybe my problem is that I just take a few of the neighbors cities instead of completely wiping them out. I might also try to build more military.

Hmm, I might look up the chopping guide and get Eurekas too.
Classic mistake... Early culture is worth way more than early science. I would not rush campi unless they get huge adjacency (say Australia with 4+ mountains)... Focus on chopping one early wonder if possible ToA is quite doable... Otherwise pyras. Get eureka for drama and make your first districts TSs.
Of course in the meantime you will be getting archers and horsemen (rather than pottery to writing) and mining to masonry... The pottery tech path is the worst one early game. Thing with campuses is that early GSs are nowhere near as good as early GW.
 

Victoria

Regina
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Some of the above are a little more advanced once you have the hang of the game.

Stick to a few changes and see how it pans out. Once you appreciate taking out a whole civ early, you can try without but a good starting strategy is that, do not forget your own settlers, 10 cities is before T100 is a good aiming point.

The chopping axample also explains a few things nicely so is well worth a read
 

CPWimmer

King
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What difficulty level is OP playing? This sounds to me like a case of starting too high when you still don't know how to adjust to the differences of V vs VI. I think most of the Civ VI vets agree it's pretty easy, once you get the hang of it, to beat the AI at Science for whatever level of AI actually matches your current skill level.

And yes 5 cities is a very small empire in Civ VI.
 
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On a duel map that might be good. I am for around 13 to 17 On standard.

it's interesting that some people like civ5 but not civ6, and other people like civ6 and not civ5. I've been trying to get back into civ5, but it's hard. It seems so boring compared to civ6, and I have trouble with happiness early. How do I fix early unhappiness? I want to try Vox Populi, but it appears I need all dlc for that and I have no dlc, only expansions. I need to make sure I can enjoy the game again before buying the dlc, so far that hasn't happened.
 

Civrinn

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On a duel map that might be good. I am for around 13 to 17 On standard.

it's interesting that some people like civ5 but not civ6, and other people like civ6 and not civ5. I've been trying to get back into civ5, but it's hard. It seems so boring compared to civ6, and I have trouble with happiness early. How do I fix early unhappiness? I want to try Vox Populi, but it appears I need all dlc for that and I have no dlc, only expansions. I need to make sure I can enjoy the game again before buying the dlc, so far that hasn't happened.

It is worth it. Vox Populi makes the game completely different. You can go wide with Vox Populi. So IMO its worth picking up everything for it (especially if there is a sale). That is only my opinion though...
 

jddods

Prince
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Civ VI will not be to everyone's taste, so after giving it a go after taking on the suggestions above, and your still not getting into it, don't worry about it. Despite numerous attempts I couldn't get into Civ IV , so I went back to Civ III, until Civ V came out. Some people think Civ IV is the best and that's great for them, we all are different.
 
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I think the AI is getting much better starting locations than I am and I find it really hard to keep up until the first war.

If you play against the standard 7 opponents, the odds that at least one of them gets a better starting position than you is pretty good. If you play at difficulty levels where the AI gets extra starting settlers, then the odds that they get a better starting position for at least one of their first cities is even better.
 

CivAddict2013

Warlord
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
218
While conquering and chopping make things easier, neither is really necessary to overcome the challenges you've mentioned.

My suggestions are:
  • Focus on eurekas and inspirations, especially in the early game. It will be fairly rare in the Classical or Ancient Era that you would ever want to hard build any tech or civic before you get the boost.
  • Get to Political Philosophy as quick as you can. The Policy slots really help. This is important enough to ignore the prior suggestion about inspirations if you can get to Political Philosophy faster without them.
  • Focus on Science and Culture yields primarily, Money, Faith and Production yields second (and roughly in that order), and Food last. Unlike in Civ 5, you don't need a lot of people in your cities to have a thriving empire in Civ 6. Trade routes in particular should be directed with this in mind.
  • People don't matter much, but Districts and Buildings do. Having more people in a city allows you to build more Districts, but cost Amenities, whereas having more cities with fewer people gives as many Districts as long as you have room to place the cities themselves. Don't get suckered into thinking that cities should have access to water. Pack as many cities into your available territory as possible, and pump out as many Settlers as possible as quick as possible without impacting your ability to defend yourself and hit eurekas/inspirations.
  • Run projects. Unless you're building a Settler, a Monument, a Campus, a District that supports your victory condition, a Tier 1 building, or something you need to hit a eureka/inspiration, odds are you should be running a Project instead. Builders and Traders you should probably be buying with gold while you continue to run Projects.
  • Until you can consistently catch up in science and culture, ignore religion. It's totally optional.
I might try to focus more on eurekas early like you said. However, I find that because of the barbarians a lot of the early eurekas are difficult to get. For instance, some early eurekas require you to work resources. However, when your empire is being raided by the barbarians and the AI is settling like crazy; taking 10 turns to build a worker just doesn't seem worth it.

I may also try to focus more on culture.

That comes down to how much is a "bunch." That would be 10+ cities on the low end here.

Also, are you placing them for adjacency bonuses? Also, it depends on running science boosting policies and are you getting Eureka and Great Scientists through running projects. It's not even necessary to be ahead in Science Per Turn as a result to be technically ahead in science.

I don't even build Research Labs in my games and I usually play Emperor; I think they're a waste of production. Even for my pair of Deity wins, I only built them to get higher numbers for my final screenshots.And most better players finish about 100 turns faster than i do.

The game does favor ICS to a certain degree, as unlike V, there's like no good % based science modifiers. My guess is your problem is that you're trying to play it like Civ 5 and spacing cities apart for maximal yields when the game wants you to squeeze a bunch of cities together to make as many campuses as possible. I gotta concede that is a little dull.
I try to get the campus adjacency in some cities but not others. Perhaps I'll try to get the adjacency bonuses in every city next time. I also really haven't tried to use science boosting policies, so I may try to get the science boosting policies from now.

Hmm, so Research Labs aren't even necessary for a science victory? If so, I might not waste the production in future games.


What difficulty level is OP playing? This sounds to me like a case of starting too high when you still don't know how to adjust to the differences of V vs VI. I think most of the Civ VI vets agree it's pretty easy, once you get the hang of it, to beat the AI at Science for whatever level of AI actually matches your current skill level.

And yes 5 cities is a very small empire in Civ VI.
I usually play on Prince difficulty. On Civ V, I was able to consistently be an era or two ahead of the AI on Emperor.
 

GAGA Extrem

Emperor
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Dec 24, 2008
Messages
1,589
This does mostly sound like an issue with finding a good early game plan.

For comparison, I usually play with 4 cities on Emperor difficulty, the same difficulty level I went with in CIV5. I'd probably be able to reliably win on Immortal if I wanted, but the AI tends to be too warmonger-y for my taste (and war would be the last reason why I'd play CIV in the first place).

With just 4 cities my games are rather slow ( I usually finish with a science victory around T300-ish), but for me the slow city improvement is more important than a quick victory. Either way, even with this quite suboptimal playstile, I tend to end up ahead of the AI from the medieval era onwards.

Some things that helped me with getting a more consistent early game (but remember I am playing very casually):

(1) Rushing Archery: Archers are critical to keep barbarians in check. These days I just beeline that tech from the start and I get at least 4 archers (1 per city) early on. When a barb camp pops up, I quickly move in with 2 archers and the starting warrior to take it out.

(2) Settling early: I usually start building a settler as soon as I have my Monument + Worker up. Depending on how the barbs spawn even before my first Archer.

(3) Beelining for Political Philosophy: Whatever government you pick, the extra slots will be very helpful to boost your empire. On top of that you get access to the first tier Government District buildings that are REALLY powerful.

(4) Chopping forests: Even more relevant now that you can have an early game governour that doubles chop yields. Allows you to rush early game infrastructure and get even more workers into the field if necessary.

(5) Picking a CIV that suits my style: I used to play Germany because of their ability to get reliable and consistent early game production. With R&F I have switched to Korea, since their tall governour focused playstile is exactly what I want, and I also love their unique district, because it actually feels unique (since it's the only district you want to place isolated from others).

(6) Ignoring Religion: If you want to go for a science victory, there is no reason to touch religion. Save yourself the hassle and ignore it.

(7) Getting to know the key techs, buildings and wonders: For my gameplan that includes Archery (early game defence), Political Philosophy (T1 Governments), Audience Chamber (allows you to effectively ignore the early game pop limit and get giant cities), Feudalism (triangle farms), The Enlightenment + Grand Opera (policy cards to boost science and culture significantly), Apprenticeship (to get city production going), Machinery (Crossbowmen for mid game defence), Replacement Parts (insane boost to farms), Suffrage (Democracy is insane for tall in R&F).
As for wonders: Colosseum (extra amenities work very well with the audience chamber and the AI rarely builds the wonder), Forbidden City (imho the best wonder all-around), Great Zimbabwe (insane economy boost), Ruhr Valley (production for the space projects) and Big Ben (yet another policy slot).

(8) Recruiting the right governours: I used to go with Mr. Science, but these days I focus on getting the one that boosts chopping yields first. Once I have a governour for each city, I level up Mrs. Commerce to get that sweet +2 gold/pop skill - an easy +20 to +30 GPT during the medieval age that allows me to delay Commerce hubs and focus on other important buildings instead.
 
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