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I Feel Lucky Tonight! Help Guide My Immortal Sal

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Gwaja, Mar 12, 2011.

  1. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    723
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Taking small steps at a time here. So another small update:

    At the start of this round, I stopped the worker farming the floodplains and sent him to the gold to mine it. I also chose to research Bronze Working for chops and Slavery, as well as to reveal copper immediately. I think I would have been better off going for Animal Husbandry first then going to Bronze Working though, like NihilZero said. Again a small misplay on my part. And I am gonna note this for myself. These small misplays add up over time.

    Mecca proved to be very good capital in cranking out early hammers. I finished a warrior and then switched the 2nd citizen working the unimproved floodplains to a grassland forest to time the next worker popping out just as the city grows to size 3.

    Spoiler :


    On Turn 23 @ 3080 BC, I met my next neighbor, soon to be the founder of Taoism:

    Spoiler :


    In history, she is like my one of the most favorite leaders. And I like the way how she introduces herself... such elegance in that woman. ^_^ As for in Civ 4, I haven't played her for a while. She used to be someone I played all the time because of her traits and her awesome unique unit. As an AI though, she seems to get herself into a lot of trouble and ends up being someone's vassal quite often.

    Anyways, when Mecca finished the next warrior, it grew to size 3, so I started on a settler right away. Bronze Working would soon reveal copper and I will know where to settle for my next city.

    On Turn 30 @ 2800 BC, I finished Bronze Working. I started on Animal Husbandry and switched to Slavery right away. You gotta love Spiritual for this... NO ANARCHY! ^_^

    So where is that copper?

    Spoiler :


    Not bad. If we had settled on the wine at the beginning, Mecca would have had the copper in the BFC. I am not regretting settling on the marble though by any means. Also, there is another copper near the wheat. It looks like placing a city right in between the wheat and the eastern copper makes a lot of sense.

    On Turn 34 @ 2640 BC, I met another neighbor, most likely from the north as well:

    Spoiler :


    I kicked his sorry butt for jumping on the bandwagon and declaring war on me in my Sitting Bull game. It's funny how this guy has something to say in the lines of "In my grandfather's time, you would have had your butt kicked, but I am more civilized" and such and such. And notice I am getting +1 diplo bonus for... what? My small civilization is no threat to him? Really? We actually have this kind of diplo bonus in this game? Such an arrogance!! I am offended! ^_^

    On the next turn, I chopped out a settler in Mecca and sent him to the wheat/copper site.

    On Turn 37 @ 2520 BC, I finished Animal Husbandry. At this point, I was sorta debating on what to do with my tech. Normally I go for Pottery early, but I've noticed that there is a lot of benefit for getting Writing as early as possible as well. I think a large part of AbsoluteZero's game success has to do with putting out early libraries. Besides, I actually love this Madrassa. Yes, I know... nobody really wants Great Prophets these days... but they aren't that bad. But the main thing I like about this building is the insane +4 culture bonus! Say bye bye to lousy monuments and its 10-turn border pop!

    So anyway, I decided to go for Writing first.

    And on this very same turn, I founded my 2nd city of Medina:

    Spoiler :


    Had I not known that the copper was gonna pop there, I would have settled this city 1N of the wheat for future banana consideration. I am rather glad things worked out this way though. And oh, this city can eventually work one of the jumbos! Fabulous!

    Also on this turn, I got a pleasant surprise from Animal Husbandry:

    Spoiler :


    Wooo... the capital is looking even better now with that horse conveniently being workable. So now I have two means of protecting myself from barbarians, which is becoming less and less of an issue due to some fog busting in the south, as well as the fact that AI are claiming more and more land. This also boosts the capital in its hammer production even more!

    On Turn 47 @ 2120 BC, I finished Writing and selected Polytheism. Now was the time to prepare myself to get the Oracle built.

    On Turn 54 @ 1840 BC, Liz founded Taoism and converted to it. So now we have 3 different religions at play here... Liz with Taoism, Justinian with Christianity, and Boudica with Buddhism.

    Nothing interesting happened between this and finishing the Oracle. Just a handful of techs that I finished:

    Turn 55 @ 1800 BC: Polytheism
    Turn 60 @ 1600 BC: Priesthood. I started on the Oracle in Mecca on this very turn.
    Turn 63 @ 1480 BC: Masonry. This got me to within 5 turns of the Oracle, with only 4 more turns for Pottery, ensuring that I can take Metal Casting as freebie tech.
    Turn 67 @ 1320 BC: Pottery.

    And finally on Turn 68 @ 1280 BC, I finished the Oracle in Mecca:

    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :


    I really wanted to try a game where I got early Metal Casting, so I decided to go this route. Code of Laws is usually the way to go, I think, but what the heck. I want some forges up and perhaps go into Machinery and possibly look into making crossbows. Perhaps even early Guilds and Camel Archers might not be too bad either.

    Map:

    Byzantine Culture is to the soutwest, though he isn't really pressuring me just yet, and I have some rooms to make more cities to the south. I am actually thinking about settling between the wine and the copper, and then with a border pop, can grab the corn as well. Doing this means that I can put the crab city on the wine, which happens to be coastal and riverside, and can borrow the corn to grow while getting a border pop and get the crab online afterwards. I think this option ensures that I also grab more workable hills as well. I can also put another city by the fish too.

    I am probably not going to bother with the triple dyes to the northwest.

    I currently have a settler, 1S of the gems, which is a grassland hill. The gem is still covered in jungle, but I could probably trade for Iron Working in 12 turns when I finish Aesthetics. Since I got Metal Casting for forges and that they essentially give me another happy face from gems (as well as the awesome commerce bonus), I am thinking about settling here on this turn.

    As for the double fish and the cow, I can either settle on the cow and look for better long term benefit of having 2 workable fish, or I can settle 1E of the cow and get both the cow and 1 of the fish workable right from the start. Both sites though aren't all that great in hammers, however the floodplains are nice. ^_^

    Spoiler :


    Capital (Mecca): Barracks and Madrassa already built, and running 2 scientists currently. I am right at the happy cap, so this kinda works out. It'd be kinda interesting to pop a Great Engineer, but the forge won't be ready for a while. If I get it, I just might save him for another wonder, or use him to bulb Machinery. ^_^ Wooo... how fun would that be? If I pop a Great Prophet, I am not sure what I would do with him. As for Great Scientist? Most likely an Academy in the capital.

    Spoiler :


    Medina: I got up an early Madrassa here as well, chopping out a couple of forests in the process. I saw some barbarian activity nearby, and I didn't want any forest tiles right next to my city, so I cleared it out. It also looked like Boudica was trying to settle towards me in this area, and I wanted good early culture established here, as well as to help with other future cities that I might want to put nearby. Once I put up the granary and clear the jungle to farm some of the tiles next to the freshwater lake, this city could grow quite quickly as well.

    Spoiler :


    Diplo Situation: Poor Liz... EVERYBODY hates her... I mean... look at that! She is the worst enemy of.... everyone! How sad is that? Depending on how close Boudica and Liz are with each other, they just might go at each other soon. Other than that, nothing too noticeable though Sury, Kublai, and Boudica are kinda getting along quite well with their low peaceweights.

    Spoiler :


    AI Info: A quick look. The religion situation is going to be creating some headache in the diplomatic situation for sure.

    Spoiler :


    Anyway, I am going to stop here and look for more advice. I am currently researching Aesthetics, which will be done in approximately 12 turns. I am planning to use it as a bait to trade for Alphabet and Iron Working at least. I do want to get Currency as early as possible, so I might go for that after I get Alphabet. Hopefully someone will trade me Mathematics too. ^_^ That would be awesome in lowering the price of Currency. I think I will be relatively safe delaying Literature for a while, since we don't have the likes of Louis in this game. That would mean after Currency, I will most likely look towards Code of Laws.... or Machinery? ^_^

    As mentioned, I have a settler ready to go, and it happens to be right in position to settle right now 1S of the gems as we speak. I wanted to pause here and see what others thought about settling here for the 3rd city.

    Oh, someone mentioned that virtually no wonders are being built in their games? Well, it just happens that I built the only wonder that exist in this game: The Oracle. No other wonders have been built, not even the Stonehenge, not even the Great Wall. It's really odd. Maybe I should just start building wonders in droves? ^_^ Well, not before I get some units out, and settle more cities... or should I look to do a rush and not hurry to expand?

    I am open to all kinds of possibilities and suggestions that support those possibilities. Criticisms and advice are welcome. I'd eventually want to finish watching at least part 1 of AZ's videos, but I am not sure where the 1st video ends.

    Save file available HERE!
     
  2. TCMIV

    TCMIV Barış Manço

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Oregon
    Played this to 1ad, doing fairly well I think, nothing amazing though. Tips/criticism welcome
    Spoiler :
    Settled on marble for a pretty decent hybrid city early on, planning on just farming it. Got the oracle in 1520 and took a pretty standard CoL.

    I settled mainly north/east to start since there was some nice land and resources, got up to 6 cities fairly easily with a good worker count, mainly cottaging FPs.

    Justinian was spreading Christianity heavily so I swapped to it and I'm working on getting my last 2 cities converted for the OR bonus.

    My tech seems pretty good, I'm looking for some trades soon, but there's not many good techers it seems. I really need calendar, as it'll give me some resources to trade as well as +2 happiness/+1 health. Hopefully sury will trade it soon so I can decide to ditch my compass/CoL monopoly.

    Also ended up getting parthenon/GLib. Not really having a standout GP farm, I just used the capitol to build GLib, it's doing a bit of everything anyway.

    Some screenies:
    Spoiler :




    Looking at some other saves a lot of people chose some sort of rush technique, mine's a bit more boring and standard I guess, but it's worked so far. I'll probably go after Boudica when I get the chance since she's isolated as the only Hindu, and she's right next door.
     
  3. TCMIV

    TCMIV Barış Manço

    Joined:
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    @Gwaja
    Spoiler :
    Running scientists in the cap I'd say a forge is less important than a settler right now, you'll have nearly no chance of getting a great engineer, and Justinian's pretty close to that crab/corn site. I'd also settle on the tundra if you get there, lets you work corn right away, and all you really lose is some junk land, I'd settle on the other wine just south of your cap though, also just loses junk land and gains some OK land.

    Not so sure about the eastern settling plan, as my second city between the cows/copper instead of next to the wheat. Someone better can make suggestions there :D

    Also you should pick up hunting and get those jumbos hooked up for the happiness.
     
  4. ahcos

    ahcos King

    Joined:
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    Spoiler :
    Not going after Boudica first got me in sort of trouble in my game :D Capped everyone except KK+Boudica in the 1500's, and the game would be over if... well, if Boudica wouldn't have Steel/Military Science/Rifling already. Currently building up my army to wipe her out and it shouldn't be too much trouble after all, but she's the onyl real succesful AI in this game - taking her out first like AZ did is clearly the best approach for an easy game, all other AIs are rather lousy.
    Capping everyone very early is sort of easy here, out of the question one of the most easy IMM maps i played the last few months. Even did some funky Knight-action, something if never ever bother with because they're usually are just too crappy.
    Super-promoted LBs got me 2 vassals (Justinian+Lizzy), Maces two other (Alienface+psyshaka), grenadiers+cannons will serve Boudica+KK. Just another thing i usually never do, grenadiers... they're better than i remember them to be ;)

    Guess you're pretty save with any kind of rush on this map except axe/charriots. Obsolete would LOVE this map, thats for sure - he'd get simply every wonder here for a insane WE/SSE


    Conquest 1745

    Spoiler :


    Boy, that's a late finish date for that map ~ if Boudica wouldn't have gone tech crazy like never before it would've been over like 300 years earlier for sure. She just was teching Engineering when i was just about ready to declare on her, but cats/maces vs. castles? No, thank you. KK got Lib but i really didnt care, i had 3 vassals and was about to make the fourth shortly and KK was hated (and fought!) by Boudica, although she somehow managed not to cap him. What a waste, if i had LB rushed Boudica instead of Justinian (who was almost useless from the very beginning) it would've been incredible easy. Funny map, though, made me use some units and techpaths i usually never chose - oracle -> Feudalism, Early Guilds, forgoing Liberalism but instead for straight Steel/Military Science etc. Made some mistakes in the beginning, but that's mainly caused to the fact that i just wanted to try out the LB rush here but never intended to play this through, but then the game dragged me in once again :D Damn you, Civ4, for wasting my precious time.
     
  5. Noogai

    Noogai Still Just a Settler

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Finland / HK
    Damn Boudica is tricky!

    Spoiler :

    I declared on Boudica with Camels, cross', phants, pults etc. Almost mmidiately Boudica bribes Khmers on me (suddenly they got all the techs boudica had and declared on me..). Khmers took one good food city from me and I bribed him to peace. Then I captuded 4 cities (including capital) from Boudica, BUT, here is the tricky part: Boudica didn't want to be my vassal or even give a peace deal, but he became peace vassal of Khmers! Khmers already have conquistors while I'm researching cannons and fighting with muskets... Since when AI became that smart? I survived it, but they both still hate me so I think I might be in danger.

    Another funny thing is, that Justinian, Kublai and Shaka has been in war against England for like 1000 years now, but they haven't managed to win! Though I supported England with ivory and stuff for purpose...I think I'm going to declare on Eng soon, if Khmers don't cause too much trouble.
    Justiania is friendly so I'm going to keep him around (if I vassal England he is 'isolated' and no threat at all).

     
  6. GKey

    GKey Emperor

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    USA
    @Gwaja skipping AH looks like a right choice here. If you go oracle you could even postpone it till you trade for it. But then farm that FP before mining gold would be way to go IMO.

    Btw, all pretty much agreed on settling on marble. How much I love gold in cap bfc and 3 hammers base tile I'd go for wine in this particular case.

    You got advantage for ~70 first turns but then this cap become pretty bad. Food poor , average production, no commerce beside this gold. This is excellent spot for second city though. Wine spot is superb for bureaucracy monster cap (production could be better though).

    Need experts who can do exact math for this case.
     
  7. itsnotme

    itsnotme Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    63
    Played 'til 1515AD:

    Spoiler :

    Won lib and took Nationalism. I had my mind on Cuirassiers, but before I got everything set, Rifling came in time for Cavalry instead.


    A big diplomacy mess among the dudes, while I'm rolling with the ladies.


    Sury owned the AP and had the entire world declare war on Shaka.


    Tech situation.


    Meanwhile, I've been cranking out some GM's. This is my 5th GM and 9th Great Person overall.


    justinina and Sury capitulated. Shaka capped to Kublai and both had Rifling. Elizabeth doesn't have RP yet. Budica has RP but not Rifling. I assumed she's close to it. I'm thinking of hitting her next and fast before she gets to Rifling and move on to Elizabeth. I already have Steel, so I'll just whip out some cannons in preparation for the war against Kublai and Shaka.
     
  8. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    Seattle, WA
    Yeah that floodplains has been farmed. It has to be farmed because this capital is just not that great in terms of food. And you are right, this capital, for now, is quite awesome, but as time goes by, there will be a better site for a better Bureau capital.

    I am not sure how you would think about settling 1W of the wine, between the copper and the wine. Actually I am not sure if your reply was toward my previous update or the most recent one, but I think 1W of the wine may make some sense given the map and location of resources. Either way though, you are right that it could use some more hammers.
     
  9. GKey

    GKey Emperor

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    Having 3 desert tiles vs copper in first ring? Just settle on wine and chop Monument there IMO. And start building palace there ASAP ;)
     
  10. TCMIV

    TCMIV Barış Manço

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Oregon
    To 800ad, just attaching a save for now it'd be great if someone could offer suggestions :goodjob: I think I let the AI get a bit out of hand...

    Save link

    Spoiler :
    After taking a look at my situation, I think I'll move my capitol to the cottaged up city to the south, and build NE in the bananas/wheat city that I've got farmed. I probably should have done both of these a while ago, but my current capitol had the GLib and served as my GP producer. Palace probably should have been moved a lot earlier, but oh well!

    I've got to figure out what to do with the 2 GPs I have as well, prophet and artist :sad: I considered culture, but I'm not really sure, I haven't been spreading religions except Christianity, but I have some decent wonders and the double culture libraries and quick temples would help. Assuming I skip culture however, I'll probably go for drafted rifles or whipped/chopped cuirs/cav. I've got good sized cities for the most part so either would work.

    In this case, should I settle the prophet in my current capitol since it's my best hammers city, and maybe get a golden age going with the artist? MoM is mine so that gives me 12 turns, during which I'd probably pick up nationalism from lib, and I could easily build the Taj Mahal since I have both marbles. Or lib nationalism first, wait for NE to finish and pop dual golden ages and get a bunch of merchants? I'd probably also want a scientist for a new academy since I built one earlier in my capitol :blush:
     
  11. itsnotme

    itsnotme Chieftain

    Joined:
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    The end:

    Spoiler :

    1535AD Boudica capitulated. Moved on to Elizabeth, captured 3 cities and she capped. I forgot to take a screenshot.


    A bloody war against Kublai and Shaka and their Infantry. With the help of cannons, the Zulu capital fell. This Zulu capital is awesome lol.


    And finally Kublai conceded.


    The game's not being kind and gave me Domination instead of Conquest.
     
  12. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    Probably right about having no chance of getting a Great Engineer. Good point about getting a settler out ASAP to settle the south, since Justinian is closing in nearby. I am not so sure about settling on the tundra though for later.... yes, I can work the crabs and corn without border pop, but that site is so hammer poor... I would rather try to grab as many land tiles as possible and grab some more hills. If I settle there, it is going to be a border city next to Justinian's culture so I prefer to let the city have as much hammer production capability as I can possibly manage.

    On the east, I really want to grab that gems. Settler is already there so I might as well grab it, unless there is a strong reason not to. There are some tiles non jungle that I can work to grow the city, so I don't think it will be a problem. The real question is with the double fish/cow area with all those floodplains... not much hammers there, but lots of food and commerce. Not sure which tile I should settle on, at a later time.

    If I settle between the copper and the wine, it also has some benefits as well. With a border pop, I can grab the corn which can be worked without a border pop by the southern crab site if I settle on the other wine there. Also, it allows me to settle the southeastern fish site where I put the marker instead of 1S of it, due to the 2 tile rule of city placement. But yeah, 3 desert tiles are not all that great... at least 1 of them is a hill.... hmmm...
     
  13. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

    Joined:
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    Apologies:

    I was trying to organize all the pictures in my Photobucket account and accidentally deleted all the Civ 4 related photos in one shot... I was trying to organize them into different folders, but ended up deleting the wrong folder and totally screwed things up. So it looks like all my pictures I posted up will be showing broken links with no images.

    It looks like I am gonna have to restart from the beginning, and start reposting pictures up yet again. In the meantime, I will upload the initial save here.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Jester Fool

    Jester Fool Emperor

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    Katy, TX
    @ Gwaja :
    Spoiler :
    Playing 2nd attempt and in good shape to win domination ~1700's (brute force since I am at tech parity but 3x as many cities as the last "victim"). I found HA rush to be a lot easier to pull off. Still got Oracle, but took Horseback Riding instead of Metal Casting (too risky since if you don't pop a GE first you won't get Machinery quick enough to really use it effectively). Just a thought since I don't exactly remember if you were going to rush or not. Oh, don't forget to use Shaka to do some of the heavy lifting - he always does his best you know! :)
     
  15. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    @Jester,

    Am I safe to read your spoilers or should I hold off on it until a bit later?
     
  16. Jester Fool

    Jester Fool Emperor

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    @ Gwaja : Probably ok since you already know the players. I really don't give anything away.
     
  17. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    @Jester,

    Good point. I will keep that in mind. Getting a Great Engineer will be tricky... last time, I built the Madrassa early and was already running 2 scientists... might have to change the approach a bit if I want to avoid Great Scientist.

    Interesting that you took Horseback Riding from the Oracle... that gets me thinking a bit. ^_^
     
  18. Jester Fool

    Jester Fool Emperor

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    @ Gwaja - The first time through I dominated early (tech-wise) but fell behind later due to not having enough land. If you can get enough land you should be fine.
     
  19. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    As everyone says... land is power. ^_^ It's just the process of getting that land that becomes problematic sometimes... such as crashing your economy.
     
  20. Noogai

    Noogai Still Just a Settler

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    Finland / HK
    1925 AD Domination Win

    Spoiler :

    I vassaled everyone expect Kublai, I was on my way vassal him, but border pops gave domination victory too early. Boudica and Justinia had some sand in their vaginas so they didn't beg my mercy before both of them had only one city left.
    It is quite late victory, but I declared first time with muskets (and kinda failed..), so that's why it took so long (also my diplomacy sucked).
    Justinia backstabbed when I was attacking Zulu, but when I finally got my stack there her game was over. She had much better war technology, which you can notice from the power graphs. After getting my stack of almost 100 tanks there I just walked over her without even having artillery all the time with me.

    Here is the stack I attacked Kublai Kan with (note that the stack rushed to attack before border pop victory, so there is just a part of my army):
    Spoiler :


    Win-map screen:
    Spoiler :


    Power graph:
    Spoiler :


    Demos:
    Spoiler :


    Stats:
    Spoiler :


    Score:
    Spoiler :


    I guess it's time to move on playing Deity soon..
     

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