I give up - or - help? - or meh I buy a PS3

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Technical Support' started by Gelvan, Feb 15, 2011.

  1. Gelvan

    Gelvan Prince

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    After spending a day or two reading a plethora of threads concerning the "late" game frozing bug, not only on civfanatics but also on Nvidia, Asus and some computer nerd pages, I really don't know what I should do next.

    I played Civ5 on an older system with small maps - no problem. I bought a new one to play also huge map mods (Real Earth Name). Specs: Asus G53JW 740qm 1,78-2.8Ghz 8GB RAM Nvidia GTX 460M no SSD. after turn 200 crashs all 20 turns, after turn 280 even more often.

    I don't want to make this any longer than it should be.
    the things I found out so far:

    1. according to Take2 the problem could be because of a warped file. Ok, I solved that. steam is great. smile. ;)
    2. according to some nerds who like playing around with nvidia drivers, the driver has to be modded. er wait... I thought I am a gamer, not a programmer... They talk about registry and what not. seems so easy... next step overclocking to 4.0ghz? :scan:
    3. according to marketing of Asus germany the G53 and the G73 are THE gaming machine of the century which should also play Civ5 without any issues, therefore they gift a copy of Civ5 to their customers until end of february. hello? did anyone playtest it on these machines? :mischief:
    4. some people say it's the modders fault, because THEY create Memory Allocation Errors without knowing better. "Highly moddable game" ah... yes.. which means I can't use mods or what? Of course it's NOT take2 because "Memory allocation errors are not possible in a win32 application" according to some people. well ok, the modders seem to be quite ingenious then.. :goodjob:
    5. others conclude that upgrading the Bios would do the trick although there is no new Bios for the G53 atm. oh wait a minute there IS a new bios (210, I've got 209) which doesn't do anything besides solving the USB 3.0 problem, which I don't use.
    4. one said he had never ever a problem with crashs on huge maps with marathon with an ooold machine, although he plays it with the minimum settings, and honestly if I have to play this game with the ugly terrain of low settings, then I prefer playing civ4 vanilla..
    5. tweakers say that windows has to be tweaked. hm, last time I tried this I destroyed my windows update and defender and beside of that, other people say tweaking doesn't do the trick, because windows 7 is soo good already and I have more than 4GB ram. so many people so many opinions... whom to believe these days?

    sorry if this sounds a bit frustrated, but I have no idea what to do next? :confused: should I tweak my pc? should I wait for a patch? should I fumble around in my nvidia driver? should I make a clean install of Bios, Windows and so on (difficult with an Asus G53 because there is no Windows CD only a AI recovery thing, which I used, but still..) just to find out, after spending a day or so doing this and 20 hours game time that it wasn't the fault of the Bios 209 (which I really don't believe anyway (usb 3.0 is NOT used by civ5. ...I hope??))?

    is it really asked to much nowadays to buy a computer which is according to the label on the backside of it, manifactured (sp?) in decembre 2010, that works with a game that has "recomended system requirements" WAAAAY below this said computer, without need of higher abilities in system file editing? :mad:

    and the fun part: Fallout New Vegas highest settings no problems at all. it doesnt even get warm and/or loud. :nuke: (at least until now...)

    Or is it the 1.78Ghz, and an intel turbo mode that isn't working at all? should I buy a good old i3? (besides, for all Asus owners, has anybody found out how to activate the advertised "one button to increase power"? the only thing I found is a power4gear button that doesn't do anything aside of switching of power saving options, that are complete and utter nonsense on a gamer pc in the first place.) or no wait I don't have SSD ! maybe I can't use the page file in a way civ5 wants it...? :crazyeye:

    I'm with my latin on the end, as one says in german. I don't even know who to ask? is it Asus fault? civ5? nvidia? the driver of the usb 3.0? my own spiritual level? :)
    Maybe I should inscribe in a Master study of applied computer sciences to know hot to use this game, with mods, on a huge map. :king:

    or.. I just give up. standard maps are nice as well, better than small at least. j/k: how much does it cost to augment map size by 1? around 2000$. :lol:
     
  2. Smote

    Smote Emperor

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    Sorry for your trouble. Its very difficult diagnosing a computer issue, because there really are a million things that could be causing the problem.

    The only question of yours I can answer is that Civ5 does not use USB 3.0. USB 3.0 is a new high speed USB, which is a connection for external devices to your computer. A USB is the connector for a thumb drive [flash drive]. USB 3.0 is a newer, higher data flow rate version of this. It is unrelated to Civ5.
     
  3. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Super Moderator Supporter

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    Wait for the next patch :/.
    There are problems in the game itself, like memory leaks, and only Firaxis can fix them.
     
  4. Gelvan

    Gelvan Prince

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    lol, yes. I knew it! :lol:
    ..sure? ;)

    I switched off 4 cores in msconfig and somehow the Ghz Turbo thing stays now at 2,66 instead of 2,11 (as with 8) when civ is in a window.
    also the colour of the desktop changed somehow, which should IMHO not happen if I switch off 4 cores but what do I know?
    ...nothing, mostly. :)
    but I am trying...
     
  5. Gelvan

    Gelvan Prince

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    @theJ
    according to this thread memory allocation seems not to be the answer.
    http://forums.2kgames.com/showthrea...n-in-huge-maps.-memory-problems-please-fix-it.

    Spoiler :
    the answers are from a mod (slowtarget):
    Quote Originally Posted by _Pax_ View Post
    You do realise, it is the OPERATING SYSTEM, not the individual program itself, which addresses and allocates memory ... right?

    Yes, I'm well aware of memory allocation routines. Somewhere in my eleven years of professional software development, including a year of windows kernel-mode debugging, five years of multiplatform application development and two years of work patching the Linux kernel and third party applications, I ran across descriptions of how memory allocation works.

    I'm well aware that the OS allocates memory. I'm also aware that each process has its own memory address space, a space which, in the i686 ISA, is 4GB, regardless of the amount of memory visible or addressable by the operating system. This allows me to understand that when, for example, a computer is running an operating system based off of 64 bit addresses and capable of addressing far more memory, any processes running in a compatible 32 bit mode will still only be capable of seeing those same 4GB of space. Since I have experience coding Win32 system libraries, I'm also aware that the OS reserves the upper half of that 4GB address space limiting effective address space of a Win32 process to just 2GB, unless the binary is compiled with the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE flag which will allow the process to make effective use of another 1GB of reserved space.

    Since I know that the Civ V binary was compiled with this flag, I know that Civ V is allowed to request memory allocation of up to 3GB for its own use. While it technically true (and pedantic) to declare that the OS allocates memory, anyone who has actually spent time coding does not refer to a malloc() call as "a request to have the OS allocate memory", but "a memory allocation". No one who has any business writing a malloc() call is under the illusion that the allocation is done in user mode instead of kernel mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Pax_ View Post
    After all, my graphics card alone will take up to 4GB of memory, all by itself, if allowed and needed (869MB dedicated, 3199 shared - see snippet of DxDiag, below).

    No... what you have is a memory block allocated by Vista/7 which is dedicated to the video subsystem by default. It's called (boringly) Shared System Memory. Vista/7 earmarks the addresses for use but only uses them if the hardware does not supply sufficient memory. The memory is not allocated to the video subsystem, simply reserved. If the system runs low on other memory and requests another allocation, it will reclaim unused memory from the Shared System Memory and allow processes to use it.

    So: No, your graphics card will not take up to 4GB of memory unless you're running an 6 monitor system. It is not currently taking that memory and any process requesting that memory will be allowed to allocate it. Wait... no, that should be: ...any process requesting that memory will receive notification from the operating system via the return value of the system call that the requested amount of memory has been marked for the inclusion in the requesting processes memory address space.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Pax_ View Post
    You don't strike me as being particularly knowledgeable about hardware and software issues yourself, not with a comment like that one. So perhaps you're not the best person to be trying to take others to task for a lack of their own knowledge in such areas ...?

    Do you still feel this way? Did I say anything incorrect in my previous comment?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Pax_ View Post
    Re-read that. BEcause when I read it, I see that poster claiming that with one city and two military units, and while sitting there doing nothing, with the game waiting for the player to click "next turn" ... the game was constantly allocated 4kb of system memory per second.

    Agreed. I misread.

    However, I doubt their methods. There are plenty of reasons for that to occur and I've seen Civ V's memory climb... but not when it was in stasis. There is a lot of pre-loading/lazy-loading and background calculations which happen in the first few minutes after loading a game. After an hour, the memory is pretty stable.

    A number of people have profiled this. So far, no one has shown a persistent memory leak. I doubt that this report is the first. I could be wrong. If you or the OP has memory profile data over a long period of time that shows a leak, then we'll make a new thread and I'll personally see that Greg or the Techs take a look at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Pax_ View Post
    That shared memory is coming out of the 8GB of System RAM my machine has. A memory leak - which involves System Ram - could eventually begin to impair graphical performance.

    No. That's not the way it works. You've got it wrong in a couple places.

    1: Memory leaks happen in process memory address space, not system memory address space. A memory leak is, by definition, portions of the process address space which are no longer directly addressed or managed by the process, making them, effectively, lost and difficult or impossible to correctly free. It must be process space. As such, a 32 bit, large address aware, Windows binary can only leak, at most 3GB of RAM. On a system with 8GB of RAM, this will never become a danger to the system as the system will always have 5GB of RAM not allocated to that process, and that is almost assuredly more than what is needed to keep the system functioning long enough to recover from the inevitable crash of the leaking process.

    2: The shared memory, as I've explained, is not allocated memory and does not "steal" usable memory from processes. The first reason is that you've got a video card with dedicated RAM and so the shared memory is not used at all by the video subsystem. The second reason is that, even if you had a video card without dedicated memory, the shared memory is reserved at a lower priority than incoming allocation requests from processes. In the case that the video subsystem actually needed the Shared System Memory and found insufficient memory available for its current process, the video subsystem itself would shut down, terminating the current process (almost certainly the one providing the greatest load).


    no idea if this is true, though. do you have other information about Memory allocation errors?
     
  6. wilebill

    wilebill Warlord

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    If arcane tweaks are necessary to run a game, the game is broken. Simple as that.

    Solution: Wait until they fix it. Estimated ETA, next two years ... if Firaxis is still around.

    Don't waste your time. Life is too short.
     
  7. Gelvan

    Gelvan Prince

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    you're right I just should forget about huge maps and try a standard size instead. :)
     

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