I guess every leader IS a backstabber at heart

alvan

Chieftain
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
92
Okay, maybe I shouldnt had trusted Giglamesh (whom I was 'Pleased' with and shared religion with) but seeing he couldnt expand anymore from our island, his only option was to attack me. We are ~same strenght, me techlead and he more soldiers tho.

Does every leader have this potential? I mean, he was like +8-9 something, only minus was close borders spark tention.
 
Possibly. Are you holding a strategic resource he needs? Did he ask for trade before attacking?
 
Nope, he had asked before for some tech which I didnt mind giving him.
 
The chance for a pleased civ to attack you is a lot smaller than an annoyed civ, but it can still happen. I personally wouldn't like it if pleased civilisations would never attack you. It would make you immune and it is pretty easy to reach pleased status.

By the way, we humans also regularly attack pleased and friendly civilisations if it is to our benefit.
 
The chance for a pleased civ to attack you is a lot smaller than an annoyed civ, but it can still happen. I personally wouldn't like it if pleased civilisations would never attack you. It would make you immune and it is pretty easy to reach pleased status.

uhoh roland i'm gonna ruin your day. it depends on the leader, some are guaranteed safe at pleased, as long as they stay pleased. they all have a rating for "war pleased". safest is 0/100, means they won't declare on you at pleased*. that's folks like gandhi and hatty. the worst is 20/100, that's folks like monty (surprise surprise) and cathy. hubby looked up gilgamesh for me in the stickied .pdf when i saw this thread, gilga's a 10.

this factor i'm talking about is for their own RNG decision to declare war on you. there are different factors for whether somebody else can bribe them into war with you, so some might not be guaranteed safe that way, i don't know those numbers. and with BtS, there's the extra added fun of holy wars, where if you're the wrong religion you could in theory have 8 civs declare on you during the same turn, 3 of which are at friendly :eek:!

*technically, they won't decide to declare on you at pleased. but if they made the decision before you reached pleased status, and they're still preparing for the war, then they don't change their decision just because your relationship gets better.
 
uhoh roland i'm gonna ruin your day. it depends on the leader, some are guaranteed safe at pleased, as long as they stay pleased. they all have a rating for "war pleased". safest is 0/100, means they won't declare on you at pleased*. that's folks like gandhi and hatty. the worst is 20/100, that's folks like monty (surprise surprise) and cathy. hubby looked up gilgamesh for me in the stickied .pdf when i saw this thread, gilga's a 10.

this factor i'm talking about is for their own RNG decision to declare war on you. there are different factors for whether somebody else can bribe them into war with you, so some might not be guaranteed safe that way, i don't know those numbers. and with BtS, there's the extra added fun of holy wars, where if you're the wrong religion you could in theory have 8 civs declare on you during the same turn, 3 of which are at friendly :eek:!

*technically, they won't decide to declare on you at pleased. but if they made the decision before you reached pleased status, and they're still preparing for the war, then they don't change their decision just because your relationship gets better.

:) You didn't ruin my day, I'm a cheerful chap at heart so you'll have to do better than that. :D

I was familiar with the war pleased factor and maybe I should have mentioned it, but didn't see the need to go into details here. The OP was astounded that someone could declare war at him while pleased and that is not very unusual. But you show that you know all the details about this mechanic and explained it well. I couldn't add anything useful to it even if I would try.

By the way, I must admit that I don't know the warpleased values by heart. It's one of those mechanics that I would rather not know into too much detail. It could spoil some of the fun and surprise from a game. I'm even considering playing with random personality leaders in my next game to increase the suspense of not knowing whether you have a peaceful or a bloodthirsty neighbour and whether your neighbour is willing to trade technologies and open his/her borders or not.

Don't you think that you should remove the permanoob thing sometime. I mean, it's rather insulting to be explained stuff in detail by someone who calls himself a permanoob. Think of the emotional trauma you're inflicting on real newbies. You're really cruel... :D
 
By the way, I must admit that I don't know the warpleased values by heart. It's one of those mechanics that I would rather not know into too much detail. It could spoil some of the fun and surprise from a game. I'm even considering playing with random personality leaders in my next game to increase the suspense of not knowing whether you have a peaceful or a bloodthirsty neighbour and whether your neighbour is willing to trade technologies and open his/her borders or not.

i don't know most by heart either, but hatty and gandhi i know will forgive me for stuff. i take advantage of them shamelessly. well, i do feel shame about it actually, and i'd prefer if you didn't tell them that i do it intentionally, please. i played one game with random personalities on, an event game others were playing too. it was funky, isabella was a war machine, from DoW to owning a new vassal in 10 turns flat, scary as all get out. but it was rather disappointing to figure out really stinking early that my neighbor qin was actually gandhi in disguise. i know gandhi too well :crazyeye:. but gandhi is such an odd duck, he ain't like anybody else. BtS is fun since i don't know the personalities at all. hubby had the pdf reference open on his screen so he looked up Gilga for me, i haven't even glanced at 'em. i just know i'll regret that as soon as one of them obliterates me...

Don't you think that you should remove the permanoob thing sometime. I mean, it's rather insulting to be explained stuff in detail by someone who calls himself a permanoob. Think of the emotional trauma you're inflicting on real newbies. You're really cruel... :D

oh pshaw, one cannot remove what is permanent! some things i get, most things i don't. tell me to go conquer somebody early and i'm lost. early being before steel, of course. i mean you can hand me 12 axes in 2000 BC and i'd probably still mess up an axe rush most days! i've done it a few times, more often with war chariots and immortals than axes tho. the whole concept just doesn't mesh in my brain. "beat up on people this early? but i'm making my pretty little empire, i'm busy!"

ps i'll inflict emotional trauma on purpose if you call me "himself", buster :p. i have two little brothers, i can be cruel if i wanna be. but only if i can stop giggling.
 
The chance for a pleased civ to attack you is a lot smaller than an annoyed civ, but it can still happen. I personally wouldn't like it if pleased civilisations would never attack you. It would make you immune and it is pretty easy to reach pleased status.

By the way, we humans also regularly attack pleased and friendly civilisations if it is to our benefit.

Speak for yourself evil one! Some of us are honorable with our AI friends!

Of course, we have no idea what our intelligence agency does with all those espionage points we allocate them...it is odd that whenever they go for a culture win, their cathedrals mysteriously fall down.
 
I rarely get attacked at 'Pleased'. If I do, all I have to do is check the power rating and confirm the fact that I no longer held an equal power rating with him(or her).
 
I had Peter decalre war on me at pleased, 10 turns after I'd given him metal casing, while half my units were the other end of the continent battering the Dutch.

I was the number one military power at the time and had just reorganised my garrisons to reinforce my border cities.

Anyway half way through my war with the Dutch Peter invades with war elephants, after about 30 turns of savage fighting round my main commerce city. I beat him off and we signed a cease fire, me having taken his capital and second largest city.

Unfortunately I'd had to cede the city I'd taken off the dutch to make peace with them because I couldn't prosecute two wars at the same time at opposiute ends of the continent.

Anyway I obviously revisited teh russians 20 odd turns later, pillaged all his resource squares with horse archers and demolished is pathetic excuse for a civilisation - no one and I repeat no one backstabs me and gets away with it.

If it had been me in his position, I can think of at least 4 cities he could have had that would have absolutely crippled my empire, but unfortunately for him he targeted a city that was easily reinforceable - even then I was down to one maceman andan injured spearman at one point.

Oh and one other thng why does the AI wait to attcak even if it has overwhelming stength - it always gives yoiuy time to reinforce....most stragne.
 
Et tu Brutus?

Surely "pleased" is not too much of a problem? I'm pleased with you, but I'll be downright happy if you give me your cities and populace.

If civs attacked at Friendly, that would be too much. Some civs are near impossible to achieve Friendly with and that is at it should be.... but Pleased is just too easy to achieve.

Just in case someone claims they got attacked at Friendly.... remember the AI can decide to go to war with you while Pleased, put their invasion plans into place, land troops near your borders and bam.... the relations go up to Friendly... but they still attack. If you've been Friendly with an AI civ for a goodly number of turns, then you know you are real buddies with them.

I always play Random Personalities these days to make absolutely sure I can't predict the action of each AI and treat them accordingly. It's very refreshing.
 
ps i'll inflict emotional trauma on purpose if you call me "himself", buster :p. i have two little brothers, i can be cruel if i wanna be. but only if i can stop giggling.

I'm truly sorry for the gender mistake. I do know that you are female which makes the mistake even more inexcusable. Please accept my sincerest apologies. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:








Phew, I hope she buys that, I don't want to be treated as one of her little brothers....
 
Et tu Brutus?

Surely "pleased" is not too much of a problem? I'm pleased with you, but I'll be downright happy if you give me your cities and populace.

Thats why I'm pretty sure De Gualle is going to turn on me soon. We were friendly, but maintaining Friendly throughout the game with him required me to get involved in too many wars and give up too many bad deals. I'm leading in tech, but the french vassalized Izzy and Ghandi by force and Pacal vassalized himself to them. I'm thinking De Gualle is getting too big for his britches.
 
In my current game I stood by my neighbor, Cleopatra for years. She has been pleased the whole time. We hit late in the Medieval age and she turns on me :crazyeye: , I think she became jealous of my culture.

I should remember, but occassionally forget - :D trust noone.
 
Only civs who are 'Friendly' will NEVER attack you. Best to keep that in mind.
Just in case someone claims they got attacked at Friendly.... remember the AI can decide to go to war with you while Pleased, put their invasion plans into place, land troops near your borders and bam.... the relations go up to Friendly... but they still attack. If you've been Friendly with an AI civ for a goodly number of turns, then you know you are real buddies with them.

I always play Random Personalities these days to make absolutely sure I can't predict the action of each AI and treat them accordingly. It's very refreshing.

I see, Spearthrower has already elaborated.

Random Personalities is awesome. I wish it was truly 'random' though. But it's fine now. When there are 14AI opponents, you can't really tell which AI someone has, unless it's really obvious (religion nuts are easy to spot, and so are psychotic "DoW'ers from the other side of the world".
 
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