I had forgotten...

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by darski, May 14, 2008.

  1. darski

    darski Regent in Training

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    I am still waiting for it to get here. Should be tomorrow at the latest but possibly today. <<<hope, hope, hope>>>
     
  2. Snarkhunter

    Snarkhunter Prince

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    Indeed. But you don't have to build units to fortify a city in the city itself. Build them elsewhere, move them to where they are needed. It really doesn't take all that much productivity at any given time to generate an effective army over a period of time. My cores these days (20% corruption or less) run about 8 cities, maybe 10 at most; there's a semi-core (50% or less) of another 8-12 which can be useful; then there's a final 8-12 which are problematic in terms of producing things in a timely manner but can always generate workers, settlers, or the odd cannon. everything else is a specialist farm and/or unit support counter. even the spec farms can gen workers if I'm willing to wait/can cash rush & I need some.

    Now--if it happens that your entire empire is border for some reason, yeah, you'll need more troops & you'll have bigger problems. But unless you are AW'ing, you should have enough time to deal with the situation with the productive core you have, even if it isn't very big.

    kk
     
  3. MAS

    MAS Deity

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    But you are implying that every city needs its own defense, whats more, you imply that they each need to build their own defense themselves! Thats exactly the problem I'm talking. Its the empire that needs defense, not individual cities.

    I don't.
    I move my troops where they are needed, I don't leave a few in every city.
     
  4. darski

    darski Regent in Training

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    As I said, I had a long empire. My best production city could build a rider in 10 turns and they usually got sent to the east but I also had to be ready to defend against the French with a full length border.
     
  5. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

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    The best solution for a long border is to shorten it. Most likely by force.
     
  6. Pyrrhos

    Pyrrhos Vae Victis

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    I've got the C3C v1.22 and the way the FP works seems somewhat random if built on the same continent. It always reduces corruption in the town/city where it's built, but sometimes corruption will not be lowered in neighbouring towns/cities, sometimes it will. I'm not sure about this, but if I build the FP without any road connecting it to the capital, cities towns connected to the FP but not the capital will benefit. If the FP is built really far from my capital it seems as it doesn't matter whether or not a road connects it to the capital, it acts as a second capital.
    Weird! :confused:
     
  7. PaperBeetle

    PaperBeetle Emperor

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    FP is only 200 shields, so no town should take longer than 200 turns to build it.

    With respect to a long thin empire; that is a bad strategic situation to be in, whatever you corruption model. You shouldn't find yourself having to build such an empire often (or if you do, you should reconsider how you expand at the start of games) so I wouldn't damn the corruption model just because it doesn't handle such an unusual case well.
    If your prefered playing style is to "just ... build and defend [your] little empire" then I don't see why corruption is much of an issue for you at all. That sounds like the description of a low-corruption empire, even without turning it off in the editor. In Vanilla / PtW you can use Ring City Placement to avoid corruption. This is a very powerful tool; in a normal game I would expect my first ring (6-8 cities) to have no more than 10% corruption, and the next ring (10-12 cities) should be at around 50% corruption without a courthouse. All those cities can potentially run as military producers, and get second-tier multiplier buildings (i.e. banks / unis) if my game is going to last into the later eras.

    You are fully patched I presume? I seem to recall that corruption was successively reduced throughout the patching process.
     
  8. MAS

    MAS Deity

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    The FP in conquest reduces corruption by increasing the OCN (optimal city number) and it also reduces the "distance to palace in tiles" factor, creating a second core for this factor

    The difference with vanilla and PTW is that the FP no longer becomes a second core for the city rank factor.

    If you build the FP in a sweet spot, the reduction in tile-distance in nearby cities is enough to make what is almost a second core just as in vanilla and PTW.
    If you don't build it in a sweet spot, the reduction in tile-distance in nearby cities isn't enough to make a noticeable difference. But the increased OCN will still make a difference elsewhere.
     
  9. anaxagoras

    anaxagoras King

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    Perhaps a patch is in order before you conclude that a system that has been played literally for years is irreparably broken.
     
  10. anaxagoras

    anaxagoras King

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    I expect not, actually, although I don't know for sure. I bought C3C out of the box, so I have never had to run a patch.

    I can say this: If your capital is experiencing corruption of any kind, then something is wrong. That should never happen, before or after the FP (unless you are Communist, of course...in which case the distances shouldn't matter).
     
  11. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

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    In my recent outing as a communist country, my capital was almost corruption free. Corruption is a pain, but it's something you just have to adjust to. It was Firaxis' attempt to limit the war-monger players, which had very limited success. A well-tuned core can turn out as many troops as you really need in a Republic, and efficient war-mongers limit their losses with artillery, so it is easy to generate large armies despite corruption.
     
  12. D0NIMATRIX

    D0NIMATRIX Full of drivel

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    I think that under a non-communist regime the FP still has 1 or 2 shields of corruption though (at least in C3C).

    1500th post!
     
  13. darski

    darski Regent in Training

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    Congratulations!!!

    [party]:band:Way To Go!! :band:[party]
     
  14. anaxagoras

    anaxagoras King

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    Yes, the FP city will still have minimal corruption unless you build both a courthouse and a police station there. With both of those (and non-commie), the FP city will be corruption-free.

    (Congrats on the milestone post. :goodjob:)
     
  15. D0NIMATRIX

    D0NIMATRIX Full of drivel

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    By minimal do you mean only democracy, or does it also happen in republic and monarchy?

    Thank you everybody.:love:
     
  16. anaxagoras

    anaxagoras King

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    Building the FP means corruption can't go worse than 20% in that city in any government. It may be less than that in say, a democracy with few cities. I think of that as "minimal".

    Building both a courthouse and a police station reduces corruption to zero.

    I can't recall the exact algorithm, but it was posted around here someplace.
     

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