I hate Anime and Japanese cartoon culture in general

[Joecoolyo]

Japanese culture is one of the few non-Western cultures that haven't been completely ravaged by the West, and they're actually able to export their cultural products to the West. I wonder if that doesn't have something to do with it: That it is in fact so unusual to Westerners that it is seen as somehow inferior or crazy, because it doesn't look enough like a Western product? But I really don't know.

"Ravaged"? "Unusual"? "Not like a Western product"?

Cheetah, I think I'm detecting some rasism against the West here. You seem to categorize us all as people who detest anything not western, in fact, even scared of anything not western because it's "unusual to us". Even though, going by this thread, it seems as though a sizable population of the west has embraced it, and does like it. Yet you still see it fit to make us out as intolerant to other cultures.

Is it because we're rich?

 

[Trajan12]

Meh, like any form of entertainment, you have to wade through it to find something that breaks the norms. All of he criticisms made so far are more or less fair but not universal. The problem with anime is that it is being marketed to an extremely small but devoted following and so its portrayals of certain things are extremely skewed. There are people who try to expand the narrow reach to varying degrees of success but the stigma inside and outside Japan makes them unable to reach intended audiences and they are already unable to reach the traditional audience anyway. The aesthetic quality is vastly superior to western animation and the subject matter is much more diverse than western animation is willing to traverse. It would be infinitely better if i just wasn't so damn insular.

Also, judging Japanese pop culture on the basis of anime is ******ed as anime is marginal even inside Japan. Most Japanese people are watching variety shows and the Eastern equivalent of soap operas.

 

[Tani Coyote]

Japan may have a taste in the oddities, but that's just a natural part of being creative.

I judge each anime on its own merit. I gobble up Onmyou Taisenki and Summer Wars, and my fondness for their furry videogame characters is legend.

 

[Verbose]

Considering the size of the phenomenon I find it at least a tad funny being asked to give some kind of blanket opinion about it.

So, I like it. The phenomenon is at least interesting as a whole, and the high points are pretty damn high. Finding them is the trick.

 

[Verbose]

Osamu Tezuka, the greatest influence on Japanese animation, himself was influenced by Betty Boop and early Disney cartoons. It seems unfair to criticize Japan for continuing a style that was developed in America. Calling Japan misogynistic in this regard is also unfair; Japan has a very large market for comics that feature men as objects of romantic interest.

Quite. But I guess that's also part of what some find disturbing.

Sometimes I get the feeling what westerners can obejct to is the degree to which this industry is outrageuous, blatant wish fulfillment. It's not real. It's not realistic. It's usually not supposed to be by common agreement of all involved. (You tend to be able to tell quite well when someone is aiming for realism after all.)

The Japanese seem to be fine with this kind of 100% artificial what-if stuff. And somehow it disturbs westerners who have somewhat different expectations on their fare. Possibly it throws western sensibilities just to what degree the Japanese indulge all kinds of fantasies with no apparent shame?

 

[wolfigor]

"Ravaged"? "Unusual"? "Not like a Western product"?

Cheetah, I think I'm detecting some rasism against the West here. You seem to categorize us all as people who detest anything not western, in fact, even scared of anything not western because it's "unusual to us". Even though, going by this thread, it seems as though a sizable population of the west has embraced it, and does like it. Yet you still see it fit to make us out as intolerant to other cultures.

Is it because we're rich?

I think you read too much into Cheetah's words.
I also think that many cultures are progressively getting homogenized into a tasteless imitation of western (American) culture.
Japan got heavily influenced by American culture since the end of second world war, but succeeded in keeping its culture original, they were able to don't forget their old traditions, and all of this without any "conflict" with the west.
often Japan takes memes, fashions, and ideas from the west and mutate them in something completely different... sometime the result is good, sometime is not, but always is original and Japanese.


This is also a reason why a lot of people in the west cannot appreciate completely manga and anime: they very often miss the cultural background to recognize and appreciate a lot of details and meanings that are usually crystal clear to a Japanese.

For example an anime like Spirited Away is really nice to watch even without any understanding of Japanese culture and traditions.
But if you do know about Kami, Yōkai, Shinto, Japanese folk stories, etc. then the story opens to a completely different level of understanding.
For anybody with understanding of Japanese cultures those themes are really clear, but a casual viewer from abroad may miss a LOT.

 

[NovaKart]

An anime fanatic got annoyed when I kept calling it japanimation.

Anyway, I don't care for it but I don't think it's creepy. I do think a lot of Japanese pop culture is rather bizarre but I guess that's just the different culture. I once saw a Japanese variety show and it was one of the strangest things I've ever seen.

They don't seem to have many hang-ups about weird sex things either, they're kind of open-minded in that regard. I'm not saying most Japanese people are into that but I mean it seems to be more socially acceptable.

Pop culture is often a strange distortion of the genuine culture so I don't think we should judge Japanese society too much based on that.

Anyway about Cheetah's remarks, I do agree a little. It reminds me of how people get so offended by any remarks about ethnic minorities but then can go on with all these rude comments about white trailer trash.

 

[wolfigor]

They don't seem to have many hang-ups about weird sex things either, they're kind of open-minded in that regard. I'm not saying most Japanese people are into that but I mean it seems to be more socially acceptable.

Japan was blessed by not having a sex-phobic religion repressing them.
The (unnatural) concepts of "guilt of sex" so typical of Catholic culture doesn't exist in Japanese culture: why being ashame and guilt for something so natural and nice?

Sex is lived in a more natural and open way, without thinking too bad about "kinky stuff": to a certain extent they are part of the fun.

 

[Dachs]

Japan was blessed by not having a sex-phobic religion repressing them.
The (unnatural) concepts of "guilt of sex" so typical of Catholic culture doesn't exist in Japanese culture: why being ashame and guilt for something so natural and nice?

Sex is lived in a more natural and open way, without thinking too bad about "kinky stuff": to a certain extent they are part of the fun.

Spoiler :

apparently forbidden 1814 picture of tentacle porn

herpaderp

 

[Luckymoose]

Anime is the reason why we're stuck with the spammy abomination that we call "yu gi ho". (My not being able to spell it is yet another reason why it's an abomination.)

Yu-Gi-Oh hasn't been a major anime in North America in years. You are behind the times. I dislike when people despise a culture or specific genre from said culture. Anime and Japanese culture are both highly influential on American culture and media. Learn to love globalization.

 

[NovaKart]

Spoiler :

herpaderp

Spoiler :

I don't think you can show that here even with a spoiler tag but thanks for posting anyway. Certainly interesting. I thought the one hang up Japanese people did have was showing pubic hair which makes the picture unusual. It looks like an old picture so maybe the anti-pubes thing is more recent.

 

[classical_hero]

There is only one Anime show that I ever watched and that is all I will ever watch and that Astro Boy. That show was awesome and it did not portray women as sex objects.

 

[Dachs]

I don't think you can show that here even with a spoiler tag but thanks for posting anyway. Certainly interesting. I thought the one hang up Japanese people did have was showing pubic hair which makes the picture unusual. It looks like an old picture so maybe the anti-pubes thing is more recent.

duly edited!

it's 1814-vintage

 

[Kraznaya]

oh man you people are so white

 

[Shekwan]

I don't make any effort to watch anime but I don't see why people feel so strongly about either loving or hating it.

Some of the stuff I have stumbled upon is quite amusing. Usually the nazi stuff.



I like weird so I think I'm gonna have to say that on balance I like it. I couldn't name any anime stuff though apart from the really famous example, and I've seen less. I tried to watch Akira but I didn't care for it.

 

[Masada]

Eh, I like some Anime, I dislike most. The same as anything else. I do however K-on! for some strange reason? It ain't ma normal viewing, I can assure you. I can be a sentimental kind of bloke sometimes.

Why do so many people in the West, even (especially?) lots of "left-leaning", anti-racist, progressive people think it is totally okay with statements that are more or less racist towards Japan and Japanese people?

Ooooooooooooooooooooo This [BNP] sadly, [littlebritland]'s a highly racist culture.

 

[Dachs]

dude he looks like a non-bald kato takaaki

 

[wolfigor]

I don't think you can show that here even with a spoiler tag but thanks for posting anyway. Certainly interesting. I thought the one hang up Japanese people did have was showing pubic hair which makes the picture unusual. It looks like an old picture so maybe the anti-pubes thing is more recent.

Art or pornography? the debate is open
Anyway it's from 1814 and it's a very famous print called Octopus and diver.

The girl, Tatamori, was a character of in many folk stories and legends popular in the Edo period (and inspired some Picasso paintings too).

Moderator Action: Link removed.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Dachs]

Art or pornography? the debate is open

Since the debate about Greek and Roman nude statuary and its permissible-ness or lack thereof on this site notably remained open on Site Feedback, I removed the picture from the original post.

 

[NovaKart]

They certainly are beautiful pictures. It's interesting how the standard for beauty is really different, the woman is a bit plump with very small breasts.

Nude art is one thing but this picture is clearly erotic.

I don't object to the pictures but I just don't think the mods would be OK with a graphic drawing of a naked woman with an octopus.