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I hate elephants

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by noto2, Dec 24, 2011.

  1. noto2

    noto2 Chieftain

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    Does anyone else agree? From a gameplay perspective, I think the elephant is an absolute garbage unit. I think it totally detracts from the game and makes it less fun, it's far too overpowered.
    -Being mounted, it gets an extra promotion with the stables
    -8 base str higher than any other classic age unit
    -50% vs mounted means it can match even currassieurs

    Basically it's stronger than a maceman and it can function as a pike as well, it's like an enhanced version of two medieval units combined into 1. Whoever has elephants gets an ENORMOUS military boost that lasts through the classic age, the medieval age, and it can even retain its usefulness into the gunpowder age, dealing with currassieurs!
    I really think it makes the game less fun, especially for civs that are trying to use mounted units. In my style of play I already prefer foot soldiers over mounted units, I find it more difficult to deploy mounted units properly (the techs they require are more difficult to research), so I use swords/maces/grens in most of my games for conquest. When I do get to play a civ that is cavalry focused, like Persia, Mongolia, Byzantium, etc, I get excited, because I get to play around with cavalry. The stupid elephant unit stops me dead in my tracks. I really, really hate that unit, what was Firaxis thinking?! Is it just me?
     
  2. GGracchus

    GGracchus Tribune of Rome

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    Well, they tend to be banned in multiplayer, so if you want to go without elephants you can go there. Or mod them out, but do it in your customassets folder.
     
  3. MantaRevan

    MantaRevan Chieftain

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    How dare you hate elephants. They are the most beast land animals.
     
  4. (Pro)Peanut_P

    (Pro)Peanut_P Random Hero

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    I've been playing Multiplayer for 5 years and not once have i seen Ele banned.
     
  5. noto2

    noto2 Chieftain

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    I've played many multiplayer games and have never seen them banned, but I can understand the logic behind it. Anyway, I like the design aspect of games and I often think about what makes a game better/worse. I just don't see the point of the elephant unit. I think it detracts from everything else in the classic/medieval age. It could be Khmer's UU, for example, and it would wind up being probably the best UU in the game, or they could have just made a much weaker unit, say str 6 with no other bonuses, but why str 8 and a cavalry bonus? It just astounds me how stupid it is. I wonder how much time the Firaxis team actually spent playing the game and testing out balance. Flavour is nice and all, but gameplay is more important.
     
  6. Rubio

    Rubio Chieftain

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    I play a lot of calvary-focused games and I never have a problem with elephants. They die just as easily as everybody else. Part of the trick is to get some well-promoted units before they appear, then they're toast! :)
     
  7. GGracchus

    GGracchus Tribune of Rome

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    I may have been misinformed: I haven't played multiplayer, but I remember reading somewhere that elephants sometimes were banned in MP. My mistake.
     
  8. Mylene

    Mylene Chieftain

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    ......
     
  9. TheWilltoAct

    TheWilltoAct I am observe

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    That's not a minus (-) sign Mylene...
     
  10. Akbarthegreat

    Akbarthegreat Angel of Junil

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    It is just a kinda bullet point.
     
  11. georgel123

    georgel123 Chieftain

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    Somebody mention Attacko and his amphibious elephants!
     
  12. noto2

    noto2 Chieftain

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    Weren't they amphibious shock elephants? Hey, that should be khmers UU
     
  13. joanne

    joanne Barbarian

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  14. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Doesn't take away the ridiculous writing of Cuirassiers. Heck, why can't people remember the spelling of 'Landsknecht', 'East Indiaman', Conquistador', 'Cuirassier' or 'Hwacha'?

    Although this might be broken from gameplay reasons, they were pretty much overpowered IRL.
     
  15. elohssa

    elohssa Chieftain

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    There are people on the forum who do not like Praetorians even though they are cheaper than elephants and come earlier. So if Praetorians are not seen as overpowered then I do not see how elephants can be. Spears are cost effective against them. Nonetheless, civs with elephants are probably best left alone in the pre-pike era.
     
  16. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Praets can't stand the shock-axe horror.
    So, Elohssa, what unit are you going to use against a stack of Elephants, catapults and a few axes (aside from other elephants, obviously)?
     
  17. The_Reckoning

    The_Reckoning Chieftain

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    I do like war elephants as a concept - something which adds flavour to a civ's start if they have local elephants.

    However I do think they feel out of place the way they're represented in game. In reality, they were very powerful, but their reluctance to breed and difficulty to train, combined with their scarcity meant that the war elephants were not the mainstay of a force in battle. Excellent for a line-breaking charge, but not common or replacable enough to make up the majority of an army.

    I think the way it should've been reflected in game is there's a limit to the number you can build, like missionaries.
     
  18. elohssa

    elohssa Chieftain

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    Collaterall damage kills any stack. Catas + axes would beat such a stack.
     
  19. The_Reckoning

    The_Reckoning Chieftain

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    Spearmen on the defense, obviously. He even said it. They're cost-effective. You can build almost 4 spears for every elephant. Unless you want to argue that the increased maintenance of 4 spears swings it in favour of fewer units?

    And yeah, on the offense cats and axes with a few spears thrown in for once the defending axes have died to attacking axes.
     
  20. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Realms beyond consistently bans them. Aside from that, these things are overcentralized trash units with a heaping helping of spoon-fed luck. It is right and proper to hate their presence in civ as long as they remain completely un-historically overwhelming for the era they become available.

    On top of all that, they add :) which is boosted by markets. It's a trash resource/concept in the game :p.
     

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