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[R&F] I have a lot of suggestions (let's talk about it)

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by DongleFree, May 3, 2018.

  1. DongleFree

    DongleFree Chieftain

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    I have probably played about good 300 hours of the game. I recently graduated from college and spent about good 2 weeks between job hunting and playing Civ 6. I have learned a lot and have loads of thoughts, particularly regarding the late game combat. I was hoping I could pitch in some suggestions, talk about it with the community, and maybe even some folks from Firaxis will see it.

    So here goes:

    Diplomacy

    I. Alliances and agreements

    1. Create "Joint exercise" project for cities with encampments. Player-owned and Military-Allied units in the city will receive experience over time. The maximum experience rewarded per unit may have to be capped for balance, but it is a good way for peaceful civs to receive promotions so they won't be steamrolled by adversaries with higher promotions. A valuable alternative to commercial hub investment or industrial zone logistics for relatively peaceful civs.
    2. Bring back defense pact. Using defense pact will allow either sides to bring units to territory of the civ with the agreement without triggering troops nearby diplomatic request. Help deter wars by stationing troops on a friendly civ that has a powerful neighboring civ.
    3. Economic alliance will also share luxury and strategic resources gained by being a suzerain of a city-state
    II. Gossip, visibility, and espionage
    1. Civs gain options to discuss certain intelligence gathered through gossip. They will be able to warn other civs about possible war preparation or WMD production of another civ.
    2. Allied civs will share their diplomatic visibility. If Civs A and B are allied and A has Top secret visibility of civ C, civ B will also gain this visibility.
    3. Gaining top secret visibility towards any civ will reveal their territories and units, including invisible units.
    4. Spies have another offensive operation: sabotage defense. This will sabotage the city's defense, and the city may not repair their outer defenses for 5 turns. The amount of damage done to defense will be determined by level of the spy.

    Proposed new end-game governments

    1. New government: Federal State
      Provides 2 of each policy card slots.
      Unlocked by previously adopting 2 different Tier-3 governments. Must be in a heroic age to adopt. Each city will gain a wildcard slot that affects said city only. Some policy cards that exclusively affect the whole empire may not be available, or will only be applicable to the tiles owned by said city. (i.e., Levee en masse) All cities suffer reduced loyalties per turn. Intended for stable civ with strong economy. Reduced loyalty balances out the heroic age loyalty bonus, and encourages peaceful victory in a late-game heroic age.
    2. New government: Constitutional Monarchy
      Unlocked by unlocking democracy. Must be in a dark age to adopt. Will receive all legacy bonus from previously adopted tier-2 and tier-3 governments.
      3 Military, 2 economic, 2 diplomatic and 2 wildcard policy slots. ( I was debating whether it should be 1 or 2 wildcard slots, but since dark age provides dark age cards for wildcard slots, decided to make it 2.) Bonus in food and culture. Intended to help get out of late-game dark age, or survive an information era dark age. All cities gain additional loyalty, higher if in a different continent. Naval units gain 1 additional movement point per turn.
    3. New government: Rogue State
      4 Military, 3 Economic, 0 Diplomatic, 2 wildcard slots.
      Unlocked by unlocking any tier-3 government. Must be in a dark age to adopt.
      Bonus in food and production. Reduced Loyalty, but receives no war weariness. Any civilization adopting this government will receive permanent -20 diplomatic penalty until the government changes. Diplomatic visibility of this civ and to this civ will be lowered by 1 level. Changing from this government will result in a 10-turn long anarchy. Projects receive production bonus. Intended for civs that intend on using nuclear weapons for domination.

    Warfare

    I. Different types of war

    1. The use of Casus Belli for joint wars, along with joining existing war has seen positive response from most of the community. I think in can be improved even further by forming a coalition with more than 2 civs at a time. Emergency more or less provides an opportunity for this sort of play, but as the game stands today, (and reality for that matter, too) pre-emptive strike can often be effective and a powerful tool
    2. Declaration of Trade war and Heresy.
      Trade war means for as long as trade war is active, the two civs may not establish trade routes between each other, and the two civs may not make deals. It is a diplomatic action more severe than denunciation, but not as severe as military conflict. Military units can pillage each other's trade routes. 2 civs may not make any diplomatic actions towards one another, other than agreeing to end the trade war, or declaring formal war (or other applicable casus belli). May escalate to a military conflict. Heresy may be declared to a civ who has previously founded a religion. A less aggressive option other than full-out holy war. The civs' religion will not exert pressure on each other. Religious unit from opposing civ may be destroyed through "condemn heresy" action by military units. Honestly, reviving the world congress system and enacting world religion/marking heretic faith and trade embargo maybe a better solution.

    II. General changes in combat Mechanics
    1. New attack type: Missiles.
      Powerful long range attack. Mobile SAM, Nuclear silos, Nuclear Submarines, Missile Cruiser, Jet fighter, and stealth fighters use this attack type. Weak against city and district defenses, stronger against support units. (Missile cruisers may now target support units.)
    2. "Priority target" allows directly attacking garrisoned units.
    3. Hidden units may only be detected by units that can collide with them (Military units and select few civilian units that cannot be stacked with another military unit)
    III. Scout class units
    1. Rangers and Spec Ops may only be seen when within 1-tile range of enemy military units. This does not apply to barbarians.
    2. Can enter borders of another civ without open borders agreement.
    3. Can stack and form an escort with other land units.
    4. Spec ops can pillage enemy tiles without war declaration. (This does not mean they can plunder trade routes!)
    5. They may not attack enemy military units without war declaration, unless said unit is owned by a civ that is currently at war with another civ or a city state. They will remain undetected unless within 1-tile range of their units.
    6. May capture civilian units. Including great people. Their identity will be revealed, but they will remain undetected.
    7. If detected while in foreign territory, can be attacked without war declaration. Their identity (which civ they're from) will be revealed if killed while in foreign territory by the civ that owned the unit that killed them. Any offensive activities related to spec ops and rangers can be seen through diplomatic visibility from the victim or owner of the unit that kills them.
    8. If their identity is revealed after conducting offensive operations in foreign territory or capturing a civilian unit, the aggressor will receive huge diplomatic penalty towards the victim and their allies. It will additionally levy minor warmonger penalty with other non-allied civs. Diplomatic request may trigger. Victim Civs or their allies immediately gain war of retribution Casus Belli.
    9. Any civ that falls victim of offensive spec ops activities may accuse another non-allied civ. They may deny or acknowledge the action. If acknowledged, they may ask for a pledge to not do so again. Acknowledging it and pledging to not do it will reduce diplomatic penalties. (Remember, other civs can tell if they have top secret visibility of you.) Lying despite the diplomatic visibility will further increase the diplomacy penalty towards all civs.
    10. If detected, they will remain to be detected for another 2 turns regardless of where they are.
    11. Spec Ops may airlift from an enemy aerodrome for an escape if not occupied by another land unit. (They can't be on the aerodrome, anyway.)
    Note 1: diploamatic visibility can swing the detection of SpecOps. Therefore, it is highly encouraged to denounce the target and perhaps even declare trade war in order to make sure they remain undetected. This mechanic is meant to give other options of hurting a civ without necessarily declaring war. If an opposing civ denounces you, you best guard your borders and districts! This mechanic may also be unnecessary if world congress was a thing in CivVI, since there are other means of pressuring a hostile civ without using warfare.

    Note 2: I suspect this will probably be the most opposed/debated part of my suggestions. I would welcome your thoughts in this.

    Note 3: Another reason I think this may be a fun addition to the game is that Scouts and even spec ops is often forgotten later in the games, and this may create more tension&drama and keep players more engaged in world affairs even if a player is going for none-domination victory. Besides, it can be pretty fun to play puppet master with other warring civs.


    IV. Air Combat
    Note: air combat mechanics surrounding aircraft carriers specifically will be addressed in the subsequent naval combat section.
    1. Deployed fighter class has too strong of advantage towards defense. Once established, it is almost impossible to overturn air supremacy, and thus late-game warfare becomes almost too one-sided. Fighter class units must have option to directly attack deployed aircrafts in a more fair situation. I also propose that jet fighters' range be increased to 8, but that outside of 4 tiles, their combat strength decreases incrementally.
    2. Aircrafts can be intercepted while deploying.
    3. Fighter class units should be allowed to deploy in tiles of a hostile territory while at war.
    4. Land units should be able to move to an enemy aerodrome district even when there are units present. pillaging an aerodrome will destroy present enemy aircrafts before actually pillaging the aerodrome. Friendly air units should be able to base at an enemy aerodrome occupied by friendly land units.
    5. New land support unit: Long range radar.
      Atomic Era unit, Unlocked with computers, requires oil.
      2 movement points. 3-tile coverage. Any air defense unit's intercept/defense range within this unit's coverage will extend to this unit's coverage. This includes fighter class units. Mobile SAMs within coverage can intercept Nuclear SLBM and ICBM attacks.
    6. New Land support unit: Infrared radar.
      2 movement points. Information era unit. Unlocked with combined arms. Upgradable from Long range radar. 4-tile coverage. Any air defense unit's intercept/defense range will extend to this unit's coverage. This includes fighter class units. Missile type attacks will lose their combat bonus. Air units and air defense can now intercept/defend against stealth aircrafts
    7. Mobile SAM will become a standalone land unit and can be used in tangent with Long range/infrared radar. May now use missile attack against deployed air units.

      Note: In general, intercept is prioritized over land-based defense due to its overall strength and coverage. Mobile SAM now provides additional land-based option in gaining it. This is also intended to fill the role missile cruisers provide, which is non-existent in land.
    8. New Air support unit: Tanker aircraft.
      Atomic era unit. Unlocked by plastics. Extends the deployment and offensive range of fighter and bomber class units that passes within 2 tiles of this unit by 4 tiles. Mitigates range-based combat strength penalties of air units. The range extending effects of a tanker aircraft may stack once, if the two aircrafts are at least two tiles apart. Can form escort with deployed fighter class units.
    9. New Air support unit: Airborne Early Warning.
      Information era unit. Unlocked by combine arms. Upgradeable from Tanker aircraft. Same effect as Tanker aircraft. Allows detection of stealth units for interception within 6-tile range. Extends range of all ranged attacks within the range by 1 tile. Increases intercept/defensive strength against aircrafts within the 6-tile range. Stacks with the effects of observational balloon/drone.
    10. Jet bomber is unlocked by guidance systems.
    11. New strategic resource: Titanium
      Can be improved with mine. Provides +1 production and +1 science when developed. Can be discovered after researching composite materials. Provides Boost for Stealth Technology once improved.
    12. New Air units: Stealth fighters and Bombers.
      Information era units. Requires Stealth Technology. Requires Titanium, the new strategic resource. Will ignore intercept and defense and always attack at full strength unless detected by Infrared radar, Airborne Early Warning or AEGIS destroyer.
    V. Naval Combat
    1. Creating fleet/armada with Aircraft Carriers will add additional aircraft slot.
    2. Carrier class units will gain experience from combat by adjacent and deployed units.
    3. Aircrafts based in carriers will cost additional -2 maintenance.
    4. Bombers may no longer base on carriers. Air support units are meant to help with usage of bombers in longer range.
    5. Aircrafts based in carriers can now deploy in neutral waters and hostile territories.
    6. New Naval unit: Nuclear Carrier
      Information era unit. Unlocked with Robotics. Requires Uranium. Upgradable from Aircraft Carrier. 5 movement points. Has 4 aircraft slots. (Can thus be extended to 6)
    7. New Naval unit: AEGIS destroyer
      Information era unit. Unlocked with Lasers. Upradeable from Destroyer. 2-tile ranged bombardment attack. Requires Aluminium. Provides Air cover within 3 tiles. Can detect submarines like the destroyer. Detects stealth aircraft within 3 tiles. Increases attack range of all units other than that of AEGIS destroyer within 3 tile by 1 tile range. Despite having bombardment attack, may still capture cities.

      Note: the destroyer class will remain to be a defensive class for your navy, hence the reduced range. It doubles as a naval support unit, in order to encourage mixing and matching of unit classes. Combined with the overall change in air combat and carrier class units, the carriers will become a key part of any coastal siege/invasion, while the missile cruiser and destroyer will still remain to be integral in naval combat.
    8. The missile cruiser unit's appearance now resembles more contemporary, real-life counterparts befitting its position and strength in the game.
    VI. Spaceport district

    Note: Spaceport district is used entirely for science victory, making it either too useful or too useless.
    1. Project: Launch Recon satellite
      Must be done in Spaceport district, requires completion of Launch Earth Satellite.
      Succesful completion of this project will spawn an air civilian unit with 3 movement/turn with a sight range of 7 tiles. Detects all hidden units except for submarines.
    2. Recon satellite is never revealed to another civ, but their launch and general location (which cities they have vision of) can be heard through gossip. This gossip equires top secret visibility.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  2. MP | Moongazer

    MP | Moongazer Chieftain

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    Trade War is similar to a Economic Sanction, I think. Probably will come back with the United Nations.
    Missile definitely need to be in Civ 6. In Civ 5 this was a very strategic and powerful unit if we utilized it well. I missed this feature already.
    I agree with you on the Naval part. Naval combat was never a Civilization game's strength.
    The radar unit is rather complex and unappalled to gameplay itself, though it is a must-have in real life combat situation.
    The Scouts and Spec Ops are a cool concept, but it will be too abusable (especially with the current AI's combat capability, it would be near impossible for the AIs to use this unit efficiently).
     
    TahamiTsunami likes this.
  3. KingsGambit7

    KingsGambit7 Chieftain

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    Thumbs up! I hope we can make a difference. :)
     
  4. ezzlar

    ezzlar Emperor

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    I like many of the ideas! I hope some of them can be implemented. I am less fond of missiles and spec ops that add micromanagement to the game.
     
  5. pavlovspup

    pavlovspup Chieftain

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    I like nearly all of your ideas too. Here's a few thoughts of my own. First, let me state that I've played Civ since the original first came out and have all expansions of all versions plus the side games like Alpha Centauri and Colonization, which I particularly loved. This week I will break 4,200 hours play time on Civ 6, though I'm just starting on Rise and Fall now that I found out they took off the spyware (I don't stay in touch). So I am familiar with the theme of the game.

    Civ has had a long time flirtation with historical accuracy and at one time was pretty close to right on with it's artwork of famous people. So I feel like they really have a good idea with the governors, but a wrong application of it. Instead of giving us cartoons of generalized governors to pick from that are all the same for each culture (definitely out of character for Civ) they should have given each civ unique choices of governors from examples of their own historically accurate figures, with traits that reflected their skillset, and given them artwork more in keeping with the caricatures they have for leaders. Wouldn't minor leaders from each civ's culture be a hundred times more fun and authentic than the cartoons they gave us? I think that would make a great expansion.

    I also think their great person idea should be two-fold. Historically, there have been Great People who were "up for grabs" to be attracted to-lured-seduced by the civilization that was the most attractive to them. That's why the United States has had so many people who would qualify as Great People, is because the freedoms here and the prospects were very alluring, as eventually the lifestyle. But there are also many Great People who are patriotic and the game overlooks them. People like Albert Einstein for example, were interested in visiting America but not emigrating, even though there were much greater opportunities here and it was safer and more stable for him. He chose to stay the course and pay the price through a World War. The game should take into account the great people who spontaneously arise from your nourishing culture and loyally become available to give you their talents.

    And one thing that's bugged me since the inception of Civ 6--There's a bigger point to this petty grievance--The range 2 field cannon shouldn't upgrade into the range 1 machine gun and henceforth be good for nothing but guarding cities. Rather it should upgrade into the range 3 Howitzer, which upgrades into the mobilized Howitzer. It really bugs me that you work your slingers up into archers, into crossbowmen, into field cannons, where they are always great support indirect fire weapons and then suddenly they upgrade into a short range direct fire weapon that it inconsistent in its use with the skills that it has aquired over the ages. You've worked this these units up to level 4 or 5s and suddenly they are basically retired. Antiquated as well as inappropriate to the task. Too slow, too close and in the way to be useful to the modern army. But this only shows one example of three much larger points: 1). The upgrade steps generally come for all units too far between. Maybe there should be a couple of less expensive upgrades in every age. 2). Military tactics and arms and armor inventions evolve ceaselessly, but the fact that you need combined arms, stealth and speed to demolish your opponent have always stayed the same and you should just get more of those as your weapons upgrade--but the units themselves should never become less valuable or the nature of their use changed. For example, an artillary unit started with the sling and today exists as mobilized armored howitzers, not machine guns. 3). There have been times when units had more than one option as to which way they should be developed. Maybe it would be cool to have the ability to upgrade units into two different paths or maybe bring two paths back into the same kind of unit again. For example, Bombards were neeto, but mortars were nifty too, maybe you'd like to have both, with similar but somewhat different uses. Or maybe you would ch9oose to specialize in just one. Either way, they are both in the long run going to upgrade into the rocket launcher or what have you.

    I have plenty of other ideas, but those are a few bugging me this morning.
     

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