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I have the solution to the Stack of Doom vs. 1UP debate

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Brawndo, Apr 24, 2012.

  1. Brawndo

    Brawndo Warlord

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    This is borrowing slightly from Civilization: Call to Power, but I think that the best solution to this debate is armies. Instead of dozens of units fighting 1 vs 1 battles across an entire continent, units are stacked into armies and moved together like traditional stacks of doom. However, when one army attacks another, the map zooms in to a closer, more detailed battlefield map much like in Call to Power, with terrain matching the hex of the defending army.

    On the battlefield map, combat would proceed much like it does in Civ5 with 1UP and ranged units. Battles would still be turn-based (but still conclude within one overall game turn) and conclude when one side loses all of its units or retreats to the edge of the map. Having units fight in armies would also alleviate the enormous traffic jams that Civ5 wars turn into.

    Anyway, I feel that this combat mechanic would more accurately capture what real warfare is like than Civ5 or previous iterations of the game.
     
  2. nitevision

    nitevision Chieftain

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    Agreed- the current system feels too "tactical" and is out of place with the general "epic" feel of the game.
     
  3. CYZ

    CYZ Toileteer

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    Although I'm love with such a system, especially in turnbased games. Like Age of Wonders or Heroes of Might and Magic. I don't think it is good for civilization.

    Let's be fair, this is not mainly a wargame. Such a thing doesn't really belong in civ, it belongs in other games. And yes 1upt isn't perfect, but it seems it is going the right way with the expansion.


    I can't imagine that everytime you battle you would have to zoom in and micromanage the skirmish, you could be spending a huge amount of time per turn during wars. But during peace you'd just be rushing through the turns. This is already the case, no reason to make it worse IMO.
     
  4. Evil_Dr_V

    Evil_Dr_V Chieftain

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    http://www.civfanatics.com/sidlegacy/index2.php
     
  5. CYZ

    CYZ Toileteer

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  6. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    The worst aspect of 1upt is how time consuming it is to move units around. That and how bad the AI is at dealing with it.
     
  7. QuantumPion

    QuantumPion Chieftain

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    I never understood what the "problem" was with SoD or why it needed a "solution".
     
  8. Heerlo

    Heerlo Jedi Master Hearlo

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    What the OP said could have some advantages, but it might have some drawbacks aswell.

    If anyone here has played Star Wars Empire At War, then I think it has a good example of that kind of system.
    In that game, when a battle happens at any planet, you are taken to a map that is not the main map, but where it is smaller, and allows more tatical movement.Then when it's over, you're taken back to the main, bigger, map.
     
  9. TheMarshmallowBear

    TheMarshmallowBear Benelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

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    Annoying. and unrealistic, I don't think in WW2 or any other major battles all units were stationed on a single hill.

    It's also a pain in the behind , I never enjoyed the "war" aspect of Civ before 1pt because I didn't wanna waste hundreds of hammers for a several units only to see that there's STILL units stationed in the city.
     
  10. Glassmage

    Glassmage The Desert Flame

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    This is not Total War. I like Civ 5 1UPT rule. It is pretty epic when you have lots of units. The new system with more HP also help.
     
  11. ampmclock

    ampmclock Warlord

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    Honestly, I really don't mind the chess like system Civ 5 runs on now. I enjoy the feeling of moving my units around tactically, and it's perfectly epic for me.
     
  12. The_Quasar

    The_Quasar King

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    I hate to disappoint you, but 1upt IS the solution to the SoD problem.

    Your solution, although well thought out, would not suit this game, mainly for the reasons as stated above.

    This is how I feel, this is Civilization, a game, not a battle/war simulator. I want to enjoy my games, as I have done in the past.

    Civ V continues to improve and, after G & K, it should be, without question, the best Civ ever.
     
  13. AxelRhodd

    AxelRhodd Warlord

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    overall I like 1UTP because it forces me to really think about unit placement. Occasionally I get it so sweet I cant help but go 'wow! that was a killer move!'

    However to satisfy those who find 1UTP too restrictive, a compromise might be to allow
    unit stacking on ROADS only and in friendly and neutral territories only.

    This would also give more strategic importance to roads and railroads but that's a whole other topic...
     
  14. King of Prussia

    King of Prussia Warlord

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    I like the 1upt because it make you think where you are going to put your troops instead of a giant stack. As others have said, this isn't Total War. Even though I do like the Total War games for that reason(among other), i think it should stay out of Civ imo.

    Side note:Well I personally think that roads should act the same to all units in the game. friend or foe. and I think they should allow your non combat units to be able to stack.(atleast in cities)

    It is also annoying allied units can block your own units from using your own roads and forcing you off and around them.
     
  15. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    Well considering the map is essentially an Earth-like world and each tile/hex being equivalent to a 1,000km^2 area of land, your analogy is compelety wrong. Stacks of Doom, if anything would grossly underestimate the amount of forces that would be deployed inside that territory in modern war. For instance at the height of the Battle of Stalingrad, you had upwards of 2 million troops operating in an area about a tenth of the size of a single Civ 4 tile.

    There are two issues with 1UPT 1) it is grafting a tactical war simulator onto a strategic empire building game, the equivalent of sticking a Ferrari engine on your skis, impractible, expensive and ultimately unworkable; and 2) in order to ensure that you don't have a CoD effect from about turn 50 you have to kill production, with the knock-on effect that you have to kill growth, expansion, and pretty much ever mechanic pertaining to building an empire (you know, the whole purpose of the game).

    That killed off any chance of the game being an interesting or good one, and the fact that the designers were so pants at making the game that they culled pretty much every other choice or strategic decision tree in order to get it to market on time, meant that the game was buried.
     
  16. headcase

    headcase Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn

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    My least favourite part of 1UPT is having to control each unit individually. If the AI was better, I would want an option to select multiple units, and tell them to go to head for a specific point, trying to keep formation as best they can, with three options for heading there:
    "full-charge" - all units go full speed towards where you're pointing, even if it means some lagging behind, breaking up the group
    "standard" - they try to stay as a group
    "conservative" - same as standard but they will also try to take the long way around bottlenecks to keep formation.

    Currently I don't trust the AI to do this correctly.

    The armies idea is nice and I would try it if implemented, but feel it would slow down the pace of battles a little too much, maybe I'm not picturing it right.
     
  17. WorldWarIV

    WorldWarIV Captain

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    I always thought that the best compromise would be to be able to have one type of each unit on the same tile, so a melee, a ranged and a siege weapon togheter. I'm surprised it doesn't get suggested more.
     
  18. Luckystrike77

    Luckystrike77 Prince

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    I'm not.
     
  19. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas & Suggestions. :)
     
  20. WorldWarIV

    WorldWarIV Captain

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    Care to elaborate?
     

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