I Heart Egypt

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by fmlizard2, Sep 13, 2011.

  1. Bamboocha

    Bamboocha Warlord

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    ...Mech infantry in 1200 AD?
    How do you get such a huge research with a tradition focused society (which, I assume, means only a handful of cities) and being so focused on wonders?

    I always considered Egypt to be pretty weak, and only being good at building wonders for a cultural victory.
     
  2. jasonf

    jasonf Chieftain

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    +2 happy per city isn't that weak. Their ua isn't terribly useful on deity or even immortal but it always gets you nc faster allowing you to grab some land a few turns earlier when it matters.
     
  3. qalsip1977

    qalsip1977 Wonder Lust

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    He went for the GL/NC/HS/PT strategy. Go straight for GL, research Philosophy which should finish right as GL does, use the free tech to bulb theology, build NC, then go for HS. Use the GE from HS to rush PT. Then speed through to Astronomy so you can open up Rationalism. All the while selling your soul to the devil (and anyone else that will pay for open borders, luxuries, etc.) to afford all the RAs you can handle. Between the PT and Rationalism opener bonuses, RAs become uber, hence the early MechInf. It's a pretty standard deity level tactic right now.

    It's not common to use this strategy as Egypt, however, because a science victory is obviously more efficient with Korea or Babylon (and their defensive UUs/UBs). He pointed out that he didn't have much in the way of strategic resources but, honestly, given it was mainly a peaceful victory until the MechInf I don't think that was a big deal. 3 cities makes sense. You want 3-5 cities so you can build the SS components.
     
  4. GfxJG

    GfxJG Warlord

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    I just tried this. I raped all round.
     
  5. fmlizard2

    fmlizard2 Prince

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    Well, I suppose there are two ways. In my OP, I had 4 cities, plus a few I picked off from Rome before I got to Mechs. I got there through a combination of:

    • High tradition population boosting science
    • Enacting Rationalism policies, including lots of TP spam at +1 :c5science: per.
    • Saving 4 GS and using Scientific Revolution to get 6 free techs in one turn (Biology - Electronics)
    • A couple RAs.

    In my Deity game, I had only 3 little tundra cities, no strategic resources besides Uranium (seriously, none). I got there almost solely through RAs. I was eligible for Mechs around 1100 AD but didn't actually build one until quite a bit later because I was focused on :c5science: and wasn't planning any attacks.

    One of the keys to both games was the Granary. In both I had 4 granary tiles (deer or wheat) very close to my starting spot. Building the Granary before a worker was critical to get enough population. In fact, in my Deity game, I didn't have a worker until around turn 60. There was nobody to steal one from, paid my :c5gold: to get Siam in war, and I could not miss the chances to get my wonders and my city sites.
     
  6. Mark the Bold

    Mark the Bold Warlord

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    I heart Egpyt too. Especially for online play. However, I have a slightly different approach when playing online. (AND I am well aware it will not work as well on Deity SP play!)

    I go for Liberty first to get that early Settler / Worker. It's safe to assume in online MP games that everyone is a jerk who will attack you relentlessly. Scout -> Monument -> Granary - > Great Library in capital. Going all-Tradition first is suicide as trying to build wonders in a one city hampers your military production and all the douche Iroquois / Rome players will destroy you. Its also really hard to guarantee to steal a worker in online play as everybody else is doing the same thing. That early second city allows you to produce 2-3 chariot archers soon AND send them to flat areas as scouts to fend off the tedious early game rushes. Egypt will NEVER, NEVER, EVER start near iron so you have to accept that rushing to iron working is futile.

    Focus your capital on getting Hanging Gardens after Great Library, and with Egypt you have a better chance than anyone of getting it. Its not always guaranteed, but 99% of people who play MP games go uber-warmonger civs and all usually take Honor for SP's / spam ancient era UU's so they naturally are at a disadvantage building these wonders.

    Once you get Hanging Gardens, you're a marked man because your score will SKYROCKET. But now your capital can go into full production mode and still grow like a full growth city. This is huge. Also the double ranged city bonus of Tradition will make any invader pay a dear price; if you are even basically competent with using chariot archers, you most likely have 2-3 +3 upgrade chariot archers defending them. Ignore all other wonders after Hanging Gardens and beeline for Himeji's castle and Heroic epic in whatever city is most fitting for it.

    Now even without swordsmen, your pikemen will have +25% attack before upgrades inside your borders (Himeji / Heroic Epic) and your borders will expand fast with the Legalism / Burial Tomb trick. You can pretty much hunker down at this point and spam wonders / buildings as all but an alliance of civs will not be able to take you out. Great People spawn like vermin inside your borders and if you can make it to Gunpowder, you're laughing. Most people threw the perverbial kitchen sink at ancient era rushes / Honor SP's and now you're finishing up both Tradition and Liberty and seperating from the pack in both culture, growth and science. I personally like Freedom as my third for the double city strength ( <- no small thing on MP games combined with Tradition double range strength). But Rationalism is great too providing there is someone on the server who can be reliably trusted to do research agreements with the runaway civ which isnt likely.

    I am well aware that it is easy to counter this 1v1. But with a standard 6-8 person MP game any civ who devotes his entire military to launching a full scale military attack on you will most likely be sneak attacked in short order. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Also, there is usually at least one reasonable person on the server who will like you as a neighbor because you havent spent the whole game pillaging his $hit like all the Rome / Iroquois / Aztec players in the neighborhood.

    In summary, I like Egpyt as a MP civ as they have a nice synnergy of UB / UA / UU in the early game for a high culture / growth / happiness / defensive fortress early game.
     
  7. vexing

    vexing knows

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    egypt is a top tier civ after the latest patches, for a few reasons:
    being able to use legalism for an early 8 happiness is really powerful
    since chariot archers no longer die when sneezed upon and had their price lowered, war chariots have become a decent UU
    the general reduction of multipliers and reduction of wonder costs all make the UU provide relatively more production, and the increased potency of wonders like gl and hanging gardens have made getting wonders more powerful.
     
  8. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Do you play with starting bias disabled? If you do sometimes, you can have iron anytime. But the UU makes possible to delay a bit this tech. This civ is fairly popular these days, GL around turn 24-25 to pop maths or theo and begin another wonder right away. I've seen HG built around turn 35 and HS around turn 50 in some games.

    Fortunately, i found a strategy involving no use of GL and HS nor ND and still get everything in time(and sometimes more than everyone else).

    An army of 4-5 riflemen around turn 90 can piss off a lot pf players :p
     
  9. Karpyan

    Karpyan Chieftain

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    So would you say this was just a variant of the 'insane population strategy', +RAs + specialists +(largely peace)?

    Btw thanks for suggesting that strat, it is very effective. With Aztecs I was able to generate 8 GSs and go for a science win on Immortal in a largely peaceful game (it started as a sword rush but geography suggested a different approach).
     
  10. Bamboocha

    Bamboocha Warlord

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    What is PT?

    And while this does look like a good stratagem for a science victory, you don't get any military technologies, leaving you pretty weak in the military department.
    You're messing about with warriors while other civs have cavalry, and especially on higher dificulties they won't hesitate to use them against you if you show any weakness.
     
  11. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    I agree, very good work. Unlike what one may read elsewhere, there is a real skill (and a little bit of RNG luck) ot managing war and peace. In my Egpytian cultural victory, I had to do some sacrificing to keep friendly with Denmark, acquiesing to anything they asked for just to simply buy time, if nothing else.
     
  12. qalsip1977

    qalsip1977 Wonder Lust

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    PT = Porcelain Tower. It's a relative necessity in today's non-domination deity game.

    As far as having a weak military, well, in deity you can rarely have your cake and eat it to...especially in the early game. So this is where the creative diplomacy comes in. No strategy is fool-proof or without RNG effects. And if you read the strategy you wouldn't be "messing about with warriors". You'd at least have archers and pikemen :p
     
  13. Kbo

    Kbo Chieftain

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    LOL. Sad but painfully true. 5 movement pts is actually pretty nice in early game.

    Problem with wonder spamming is that you delay grabbing the NC, I know your focus is mainly MP but snagging GL and NC up around turn 45-50 is very powerful and thats not including being in medieval at that time, on deity I've seen HG go shortly after NC is complete even with those bonuses, especially if you get a civ that holds it in utmost priority like Gandhi.

    Porcelain Tower. I'll have to assume that one or two (or maybe more depending on who you got as neighbors) cities would be production focus, and pump out some new units. The main problem with the strat is that while you fly through the top of the tech tree you're left with pikemen and chariots for a span of x number of turns before you can make it to gunpowder....unless you go chivalry and upgrade them to knights to try and defend with for the time being. Last game I played I had Oda and Napoleon beside me, wasnt fun using knights and pikes vs musketeers and samurai, even with himeji.

    How far away were your neighbors? It seems like its a straight blast through tradition and tech to education, I wonder how effective it could be if peace wasn't in the dictionary though? Or did you have your fair share of DoW and just pushed them back with sticks until the techs came through? I can see how your :c5science: would go through the roof with massive pop, and having CS allies would make up for the :mad: but that leaves minimal gold for RAs no?
     
  14. w a i n y

    w a i n y Let's Play Deity!

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    Sure, but hard-building wonders is only part of a successful cultural game, and you could probably do fine at getting the Oracle and the Louvre with almost any civ. (Stonehenge is not crucial anymore.)
     
  15. wannabewarlord

    wannabewarlord Prince

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    question: you all talk about the early +8 happiness through legalism. But that requires you to have built 4 cities by the time the 3rd SP (or 4th, if you take the city bonus one first) unlocks, right? And this while you are building your wonders/military?! How do you even have time to squeeze settlers in there?
     
  16. vexing

    vexing knows

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    go hybrid tradition and liberty. tradition -> liberty -> settler -> etc, until you have the cities built and ready, then pop legalism.
     
  17. wannabewarlord

    wannabewarlord Prince

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    Yes. But all the while you need to also build the GL, NC and HS before the AI does. And the OP mentioned filling in the Tradition tree to get growth boost early. I don't think you can do that AND get the legalism "trick" going.

    Maybe I misread, because it sounds like I want to have the cake and eat it too :lol:
     
  18. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

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    of course you want both :D

    it's possible to have, if you ignore the GL, which should be the case most of the time.

    tech through to philosophy while expanding and quickly hammer the monuments in the new cities.

    You should be able to have that done before you need to start the HS. Finishing Liberty will be harder, but the Oracle or a cultural ally can help with that. + the extra culture from the temples.
     
  19. fmlizard2

    fmlizard2 Prince

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    In the OP game it was a pure stickfight. Early wonder spam combined with :c5food: mongering, top of the tree teching, and Tradition policies leaves precious little room for much of a defense force. I had 4 Immortal neighbors, 3 of whom were declaring war on me, and I had about 4 war chariots to my name. I used Belgrade and Kathmandu to do my fighting for me. They were buffers on the borders with the warring civs, and I sat back in my chariots and mopped up what they didn't take out. War chariots do zoom up and down the piecemeal roads I had so they can defend multiple flanks.

    In my Deity game it was all diplomacy. No buffer CS, 0 strategic resources of any kind, just being super friendly to my one neighbor (Siam) while all the while spending tons of :c5gold: to incite wars on him from the other side (Korea and Aztec). Much more of a "diplomatic victory" than the real in-game one, which is basically economic victory.
     
  20. fmlizard2

    fmlizard2 Prince

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    Yeah, therein lies the conundrum of Legalism...the policy would be way more user friendly if it switched spots with Landed Elite. I usually have to wait to take Legalism until I at least have Philosophy and can get one temple/Burial Tomb from it. But at that point I usually only have one city, 2 tops, so I often have to bite the bullet and just take my less than optimal policy in order to get down to the :c5food: stuff below it and finish the tree. Allowing policy saving (which I often do) helps you get a little more from it.

    I've tried a combo Liberty / Tradition approach but I find it just leaves me lacking later in the game because I don't get finishers until relatively late and I am still finishing early trees when I should be taking Renaissance level trees.
     

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