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I just realized this! Imbalance between positive and negative diplo modifiers

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by gozpel, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

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    By playing this game you try to have all foes on one side and all friends on your side.

    It doesn't work that well.

    My best plus with a civ is +7

    Friendship +1
    They want friendly relationship +1
    We traded recently +1
    War against common enemy +2
    And a couple I forgot, but it was +7 for a few turns.

    Then negative:

    Germany covets my lands -1
    They denounced us -1
    They think we're winning the game blabla -1
    They think we taking CS from the -1
    They don't like we built wonders they cover -1
    We denounced them -1
    We told them to not settle close -1
    We made an outrageous demand -1
    We declared war on them -1
    We took their cap -1
    and a few more which I don't remember, but it was -14 in total.

    Just slightly out of balance, I would say. :)

    How can I improve happy to other Civs from here?
    And how can I make Germany hate me more?

    Moderator Action: Adjusted the thread title a bit.
     
  2. TheMarshmallowBear

    TheMarshmallowBear Benelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

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    I do agree, there seems to be WAY more negative modifiers than positives ones in the game, making it extremely difficult to appease the AI, an very easy to annoy them.
     
  3. headcase

    headcase Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn

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    It's somewhat reasonable as any empire looks out for #1 first and for its friends second. Having more negative modifiers is a reminder of that.

    G+K sounds like it will have positive modifiers for same religion (early) and same SP branch (late), but more than likely it will have negative modifiers there as well. There might be stronger lean toward liking "enemy of my enemy" civs, to set up world wars with 2 sides.

    This is what I like about VEM: you both get bonus gold for open borders with each other, giving more of a reason to team up... at least until near the end. Plus in both VEM and NiGHTS, AI is a little more friendly overall.
     
  4. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Emperor

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    The preponderance of negative over positive diplo modifiers is, to me, one of the main reasons that Civ 5 so often turns into a wargame. That's bad enough, what's worse is that you will inevitably incur negative modifiers due to AI actions:

    1) AI settles a city next your border. On the next turn you get "Don't settle so close to us..."

    2) You sign a DoF with Civ X. Next turn, Civ Y pops up and says, "If you get too close to Civ X then you and I might have trouble getting along."

    On that last, why? They may have fought a war before you met either of them. One may have expanded up to the other's border. In either case, you may never know. To my knowledge, the only way to ascertain the state of relations between AI civs is to go to each and every one of them and ask "What do you think of..." That is too time-consuming to even contemplate and it prevents the player from making use of Civ 5's rudimentary diplo.

    It might help some if you received +1 Diplo with a civ for every x number of turns that you maintain a DoF. I'm sure that others could suggest additional ways to balance out negative/positive modifiers. As things are now, DoFs are a joke and I'm building up my forces.
     
  5. smallfish

    smallfish Immortal

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    The fact that one thousand years ago Catherine refused to help Ghandi in his war against Alexander is very important and the driving factor in all interactions. Also Fredrick just asked to become a vassel of FDR for no real reason.
     
  6. TheMarshmallowBear

    TheMarshmallowBear Benelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

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    There is no "What do you think of.." option in the Diplo, that was in Civ 4, in Civ 5 you got nothing but the Diplomatic Overview which tells you whot hey denounced/have friendship/are at war with and that's it!
     
  7. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Emperor

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    Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner; Civ 5 diplomacy summarized in two sentences. Diplo is so poorly implemented that it almost makes me wish for the Good Old Days of the Apostolic Palace.
     
  8. smallfish

    smallfish Immortal

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    Also Fredrick just asked to become a vassel of FDR for no real reason.
     
  9. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Emperor

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    I stand corrected. There's nothing like flying blind through a broken system, is there?
     
  10. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Emperor

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    Aha! So that's why Poland refused to trade Coal for use in my nuclear plants.
     
  11. PierreBonaparte

    PierreBonaparte Chieftain

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    As Sulla would say, theres fineese in diplomacy. Unfortunately, the AIs arent programed with this fineese
     
  12. smallfish

    smallfish Immortal

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    I think we'll have to wait till Turing breakers before there's something that'll really blow all our minds out of the water
     

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