I learned two things recently

[mikeville]

1. When you have Chu Ko Nu's, don't pick Logistics as a promotion. Yeah, three shots sounds great, but since they only have two movement points, you will never get that third shot.

2. I thought this was weird in diplomacy. I had an isolated start on a continent, just me (Poland) and one other AI (Portugal). I decided right away I was going to wipe them out ASAP, so I just started cranking out archers. After all, if you destroy another civ before you (or them) meet anyone else, you avoid the penalty for killing a civ. Anyway, I was barb hunting near their lands and they came to me and said, hey, we notice your troops over here, if you're going to attack, just do it already. But I wasn't ready, so I said, nah, we're just passing through. 20 or 30 turns later, of course, I was ready, and I attacked, and wiped them out. Later on in the game, when I started meeting other Civs, I had the negative modifier for "You broke your promise about moving your troops!" I THOUGHT THEY DIDN'T KNOW ME THEN!!! But, I didn't have the warmonger penalty with anyone... So... What gives? Shouldn't they either both be on or both be off?

 

[Moriarte]

I THOUGHT THEY DIDN'T KNOW ME THEN!!!

Travellers told stories of your unspeakable betrayal.

Sometimes it is frustrating to encounter these things in the game, yet, i imagine CiV would become much easier if any change was implemented in that department. So, i vote no.

When you have Chu Ko Nu's, don't pick Logistics as a promotion. Yeah, three shots sounds great, but since they only have two movement points, you will never get that third shot.

Anyone ever sampled a Persian chukonu with logistics during golden age?

 

[Plumfairy]

I had the negative modifier for "You broke your promise about moving your troops!" I THOUGHT THEY DIDN'T KNOW ME THEN!!! But, I didn't have the warmonger penalty with anyone... So... What gives? Shouldn't they either both be on or both be off?

"We heard that you broke your promise to a civ that you exterminated, but we have no idea that you exterminated somebody."

Critical thinking is not their strong suit.

 

[mikeville]

Anyone ever sampled a Persian chukonu with logistics during golden age?

Hah... I'm sure that's an extremely rare unit! The only way you could get that is through being allied with a Militaristic city state, yes? One that "knows the secrets of the Chu ko Nu."

I was just talking normal, when you are playing as China Chu ko Nu, taking logistics is a waste of a promotion! But you knew that.

 

[phillipwyllie]

@point 2: this is all over the forums as one of the biggest no-no's in the game.

 

[Crafty Bison]

Anyone ever sampled a Persian chukonu with logistics during golden age?

Yeah I've used 3 shot CKN's (well, 3 shot gatling guns anyway) with both Denmark and Persia, as they're some of the civs I play most. They rock, end of. Obvs for the normal civs out there this is only a pipe dream .

 

[Doctor Doom]

Yeah I've used 3 shot CKN's (well, 3 shot gatling guns anyway) with both Denmark and Persia, as they're some of the civs I play most. They rock, end of. Obvs for the normal civs out there this is only a pipe dream .

Wait how can Denmark get 3 movement? Sorry noob question!

 

[chazzycat]

they have + 1 movement for embarked units, which they keep when they disembark. and they disembark for only 1 movement point. So later in the game after embarked units get the astronomy bonus, you can have 3 movement points simply by ending your turn right next to shore and disembarking first thing next turn.

 

[cairnsy44]

2. I thought this was weird in diplomacy. I had an isolated start on a continent, just me (Poland) and one other AI (Portugal). I decided right away I was going to wipe them out ASAP, so I just started cranking out archers. After all, if you destroy another civ before you (or them) meet anyone else, you avoid the penalty for killing a civ. Anyway, I was barb hunting near their lands and they came to me and said, hey, we notice your troops over here, if you're going to attack, just do it already. But I wasn't ready, so I said, nah, we're just passing through. 20 or 30 turns later, of course, I was ready, and I attacked, and wiped them out. Later on in the game, when I started meeting other Civs, I had the negative modifier for "You broke your promise about moving your troops!" I THOUGHT THEY DIDN'T KNOW ME THEN!!! But, I didn't have the warmonger penalty with anyone... So... What gives? Shouldn't they either both be on or both be off?

I have a very similar situation in my current game as Spain. I was on an island with Mongolia, who had a huge army amassing. I prepared and had my army stationed around Seville, which was close to his capital. He declared war on 2 CS though and captured one. I knew it was a matter of time until he came for me, but I had not finished getting my army ready for him, so when it was, I also "broke my promise". I was hoping that I would not be penalized for it since we have yet to meet anyone. But that now sounds unlikely. Will liberating a CS offset that? I am guessing no...except for the CS I rescued. Guess I should have read the forums more often. Is this one of those red negatives that last forever?

 

[NASAROG]

Rumors and innuendo. Do not believe them. They are probably looking to get a better deal on the trade.

 

[mikeville]

Is this one of those red negatives that last forever?

Yes - it lasted forever in my game, which I won with a scientific victory. I only had two friends throughout the entire course of the game. Siam (shockingly) was my buddy all game long. We literally had DOF from shortly after we met until the end of the game. And Austria was my friend after we fought a war, interestingly enough.

The story behind that is, Austria forward settled me, then declared war on me because I was "too close." What? Anyway... I razed the closest city, then went and took two more cities, which I gave to Siam for free. I'm guessing that's why Siam stayed friends with me, even through the mid and late-game chain denouncements that I suffered. Almost immediately after the war, Austria changed to friendly. Of course I didn't trust her for a while, but eventually did do a DOF and etc and we were pals until the end.

 

[cairnsy44]

That is some interesting behavior from Austria. Never seen anyone change their attitude like that. Especially with the violent history between you two.

 

[Cpt Oblivious]

But I wasn't ready, so I said, nah, we're just passing through.

Unfortunately, that's one of the long-standing ones to deal with. If you plan to attack them, never say no to that unless you're ready to derail the whole war effort for 50+ turns. Better to not lose the perfect initiation than get the betrayal negative (and yes, that will stick around longer than the 50 turns you would have had to wait and will extend to civs you haven't met yet.)

That is some interesting behavior from Austria. Never seen anyone change their attitude like that. Especially with the violent history between you two.

I've actually seen this more than a few times now. It surprised me at first because I guess I was used to how things were in Vanilla and G&K for so long, where this was basically a trap. It seems to be more prevalent in warmongers (I've seen it with Shaka and Askia in my games that I remember) but yes, there seems times where if you war and beat around an AI, they come out legitimately respecting the fight you put up against them. It's weird to get used to, but a nice touch.

 

[FinsT]

...
Anyone ever sampled a Persian chukonu with logistics during golden age?

Not me. However, i've made some Pathfinders (Scouts) to Scouting 3 early enough (it's just 60 exp, need a little war with some civ and gotta be careful and patient about it), and then upgraded them to ranged units vua ruins = voila, movement=3 ranged units, 100% of the time (not just during golden ages), any civ. That's how 3-shots-per-turn Chu-ko-nu could actually be made.

It even can be quite easy - fortify a scout (pathfinder is even better - higher combat strength) in a rough terrain tile 2 tiles away from a small (size = 1...3) enemy city, and have another unit with a doctor upgrade behind. Scout then can take a few hits; if he's fortified within player's territory, even better (needs real close enemy city, but possible). Being hit produces experience - and being hit while fortified on rought terrain is a big defense bonus. This is usually better than trying to hit the city with a scout. Once close to red or in red, retreat to safety, heal up. Repeat few times. Assuming scout had 30 exp from barracks and few barbarians fights prior, it's just 30 exp to earn to get to level 3 (thus +1 movement upgrade).

It was changed, i recon, at some point; some day in the past, +1 movement was Scouting 2 upgrade; nowadays, it's scouting 3. Still very possible and worth it, though.

 

[Moriarte]

Add mt. kilimanjaro bonus on top to make them even more dangerous.