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I like the new tech tree already, but then things got fishy...

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Ecthy, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. Ecthy

    Ecthy Chieftain

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    Please explain to me how you achieve those UHV goals on monarch.

    1. Babylon. We need to reach Construction, Arithmetics and Writing before the Greek spawn in turn 151 (in Marathon, equalling about turn 50 in normal turns), as the Greeks start with those techs and their spawn will spoil the UHV for us if we don't beat them. Thing is, these are techs in the 3rd column, and we only get so many free techs. What's worse, those three techs have quite different prereqs, Construction seems to be a particular "outlier", so combining our tech jumps from the UP isn't enough. Oracle comes to mind, but requires two techs which are complete outliers to this intermediary goal. I can never seem to get more than one out of these 3 techss before the Greeks spawn, so WTF? Will Ishtar gate help? But how, in such short time? May it be that Greece is OP, starting tech wise?

    2. Prussia/Germany. Not mentioned often either here or in RFCEurope, as I guess most think they're a piece of cake conquering game, but this new DOC version actually adds some spicy UHV: be the first to 10 industrial techs, Thing is, the industrial era is entered right after the 1700 scenario starts, so things get hairy quickly. There are three competitors: Britain, France and, oddly, Turkey, which ever since the inception of DoC has been a major power in the 1700 scenario (maybe weaken them some, tech-wise?). Anyway, we need to crank up our GP rate, using both civics and buildings. Tough job, considering three out of four cities have absolutly crap production, so Civil Square (building which hypes GP) is not a quick option for Berlin. So after sneaking our way to Social Contract, which seems to be pretty dependent on random factors if you don't want to invest research in this, we can get Berlin up to producing some nice GP rate combining the civics of Monasticism and Constitution. Still ,everybody keeps beating me to those industrial techs. Again, WTF?

    I guess the German challenge is a matter of micromanagement. But Babylonia puzzles me. Puh-lease?

    (Points 3 through N: numerous games where I can't seem to come up with a sound research strategy. This tech tree has some potential for strategic choice...)
     
  2. Malchar

    Malchar Chieftain

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    I believe that they just recently implemented the tech tree changes, and none of the UHV's are balanced yet. I'm sure that feedback like this will be necessary to tweak the UHV goals or to adjust the civ's starting situation.
     
  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth Knight of Time Moderator

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    Yeah, please don't take nothing of the current state in git as the desired target state or in any way designed. I have not balanced starting techs and tech speed yet.

    The process goes like this:
    1. add all the new techs
    2. add new stuff along with the techs
    3. iterate on what techs exist and what they enable
    4. add other desired rule and mechanics changes for 1.15
    5. balance starting techs and tech speed along with the related UHVs

    I spent A LOT of time on steps 2-3 and only recently got done with that (mostly), currently being occupied with step 4. The reason step 5 comes last is that a) it's easier to focus on balance once the other stuff is off my back and b) because the changes in step 4 also impact balance and challenge.

    I don't know what needs balancing now, but it could be either of the current overall tech speed, starting techs for particular civs, tech speed for particular civs and tech related UHV goals. Reports like this are very useful in helping me assess what is wrong and what is working, so please keep them coming.
     
  4. Ecthy

    Ecthy Chieftain

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    Ok, so what we need is not combiend whining on 2 or 3 UHVs but rather concerted analysis of individual civs. Having said that, overall faster research might help the Babylonians already, though not ze Prussians ;)
     
  5. Leoreth

    Leoreth Knight of Time Moderator

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    I accept critique on everything you run across in your games. I only wanted to put things into context so that people are not frustrated because the challenges are unfairly hard, and instead invite everyone to contributing to making things better.
     
  6. Ecthy

    Ecthy Chieftain

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    I'm totally with you on this, just trying to improve my feedback as well. I actually posted this thread to get strategy help, underrating the balancing aspect, which is obviously unfinished. The question still remains if someone may have achieved this, but obviously we need to watch closely at how these UHV approaches unfold in order to calibrate. Anyway, don't mistake self-irony for sarcasm, although I might brush up on my use of smileys ;)
     
  7. Leoreth

    Leoreth Knight of Time Moderator

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    So coming up with strategies is ALSO a good way to help me. How far people need to go to beat a UHV (especially with gamey or semi-exploiting strategies) is very informative about how hard the goals are.
     
  8. King of Zeal

    King of Zeal Chieftain

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    This is semi-on/off topic but last time I was actively playing DoC, I came to the conclusion that I felt that victory conditions needed a complete overall imo. Not so much the historic victories, but the victory screen in general which seems like a cluttered mess of wasted space. I wanted to pitch a large breakdown but never got around to it cause it was during finals time and I forgot about it. With the change in the tech tree, would now be a good time to pitch an idea like this?
     
  9. Leoreth

    Leoreth Knight of Time Moderator

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    Yes!
     

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