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I made a video on why I think donut is the most balanced map

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by GodDamnItAlexander, Sep 28, 2017.

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  1. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost King

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    You know that saying “no offense” doesn’t preclude you from being offensive, right? You’ve been insulting everyone who disagrees with you (which at this point is everyone). That does not reflect well.

    You want my reasoning? Plain observation. The game has been going for YEARS with the “soft-balancing” paradigm, and it’s remarkably healthy and robust with no sign of dying out. Every civ is relevant and unique, and even if there are imbalances, no civ is degenerate or irrelevant. Out of 43 civs. That is success, plain and simple.
     
  2. thecraftybee

    thecraftybee Warlord

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    Alexander, say that you get your way and Gazebo commits to making Dount the map of choice as the final arbiter of balance. If it's balanced on Donut, then it's great. A lot of the feedback from this thread is that people don't like or enjoy Donut and would find it a chore to play on. If something is then found to be ridiculously strong or weak on Pangaea/Continents/Other, and there are 10 people complaining about it, but it is perfectly balanced on Donut according to 2 Donut aficionados, does Gazebo change it? Does he break the balance of Donut to help those playing other maps? What ratio of complaints from non-Donut users to Donut users would be needed to make a change? Should the voice of the people be ignored in Vox Populi?

    You say that you cannot achieve hard balance with multiple map types, but can you do it with one map type only? Why use only one map type, why not just use one single map, 8 player, specifically designed, standard speed, standard settings? The sweet spot for balance that you seem to want is far stricter than what the community seems to want.

    Balance isn't a choice of hard or soft, it is a spectrum. The sweet spot you choose can always be tinkered to become harder (one map vs one map type) and it seems that the community, at least on this thread likes the current paradigm.

    Your arguments for change have left me unconvinced, I am quite content with the game as it is currently: changes are made and a new patch comes out, any bugs are stomped, runaways or slackers are buffed/nerfed to an average and the cycle continues. I find most games very balanced, I can win with any civ on any VC (although I haven't played all the warmonger civs yet).

    I trust Gazebo's judgement to keep the game relatively balanced. Getting a new patch is a treat, especially when there are multiple changes as it excites me to try a new game immediately.
    You claim that a focus on softer balancing will cause people to become bored and desert the mod. For me personally, near stasis is the enemy and would drive me from the mod.
     
    vyyt likes this.
  3. GodDamnItAlexander

    GodDamnItAlexander Warlord

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    No I haven't. You just need to grow up and not take it personally.

    This is (supposedly) a personal attack on me. How did I reply to this back when you told me that?

    If thread views are anything to go by they have only been going down recently. Go through old pages and look for the new versions Gazebo threads. The view count is obviously falling.
    I remember hearing some deity players complaining about some specific Civs always being behind in their games. Also why did Gazebo rework Netherlands? He explains it in a new version thread.

    I agree, there is a spectrum between hard and soft. I already talked about it in this thread in some of my previous posts.
    I'm just going to go ahead and quote myself:

    "I will however make the dramatic prediction that VP will either make the move to hard balancing or die (for whatever reason), whichever comes first. This is because as the player keeps playing the game, he will eventually find all the best strategies. Then it's just a matter of playing out the script and making adaptations along the way depending on the situation.

    "But wait! Adapting to the situation is the whole point of playing strategy games!"

    Yep. What fun would Civ be if you could just execute your strategy exactly as planned? But the mechanic of coming up with your strategy and then executing the strategy so it will actually bring you to victory, is also affected by soft/hard balancing. Even with all the different amount of settings that one could possibly play with and the infinite amount of scenarios you could find yourself in, certain tactics will prove to be the best over time and will be recycled over and over again. The medieval trees were changed (partly) for this very reason.

    The game will get dull."

    Near stasis is the current situation, and soft balancing will only make it worse.

    Moderator Action: Please do not troll. You tell everyone not to take it personally, yet you are insulting and made it personal. Thread closed. leif
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2017
  4. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost King

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    I see no point to continuing this discussion. A consensus has already been reached long ago, and the OP is clearly trolling at this point. What’s the procedure for locking a thread?
     
  5. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Just let it die by not responding to it.

    G
     
    vyyt and Jakman217 like this.
  6. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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