[GS] I Miss National Wonder

[Zenstrive]

Somehow, I am missing national wonders. Those building that needs tons of prerequisite and will be more and more expensive the more cities you have.Like East India Company and such. They give you a boost to your sense of self worth when you're losing world wonders left and right.

"Ah well, at least I have my east india company wonder"

Why did they eliminate it? With districts you can have a national wonder too, perhaps if you build three districts in a triangle other together you can build a national wonder in one of them called The House of Plentitude where you can activate any Great People.

Or if you have already have five neighbourhood ou can build a Welfare District wonder where it gives all of your neighbourhoods +1 food.

Thoughts?

 

[Depravo]

I agree - it was an odd omission and would fit in perfectly with the adjacencies / unstacked cities model of Civ 6.

 

[BenitoChavez]

As I recall, in Civ V you need to build a certain building in each city before you could build your national wonders. I thought that was a pretty crappy prerequisite especially for wide empires where you're constantly founding/conquering cities and may not reach the prerequisite until late in the game. If they changed that I'd be for national wonders

 

[Bradypus]

I am torn about national wonders. On one side it would allow for going tall to be more competitive. On the other hand I was always annoyed in CIV V having to halt my progress just to get a National College asap. Perhaps if National Wonders could be implemented in some different way, they could be a nice addition.

 

[Bibor]

Although I miss the national wonders, the the concept would need to be heavily reworked for Civ6, because the old national wonder system is present in - and is partially replaced by - governors and the sheer number of various effects of great people.

I wouldn't mind having national wonders that provide tile yields of choice where you need them, so you can have a bit of faith without focusing on religion or GotH, food in a city with nothing but hills, production in a completely flat city...

Something like a hybrid between Petra and Government district.

For example, final upgrades to Industrial (can have only one in your empire):
a) Surplus food equal to the adjacency bonus.
b) Yields 4 oil.
c) Yields 4 aluminum.

 

[UWHabs]

Although I miss the national wonders, the the concept would need to be heavily reworked for Civ6, because the old national wonder system is present in - and is partially replaced by - governors and the sheer number of various effects of great people.

I wouldn't mind having national wonders that provide tile yields of choice where you need them, so you can have faith without focusing on religion or GotH, food in a city that's a great production spot, but poor in food, or production in a flatland city.

Yeah, between governors and the government plaza, that's the closest equivalent we have to national wonders. While they were nice for specializing your cities, the fact right now that you choose which districts to build in which cities, and can place some districts with better adjacencies.

And if you want faith without focusing on religion, nothing stops you from simply building a holy site. Faith is not a bad currency even without any religious focus.

 

[Socrates99]

Governors and the government plaza kind of replace those imo.

If they did make a comeback I dont like the idea of going the "every city" route of V in VI because some cities may never get certain districts. Maybe having a prerequisite in a hard number of cities that scales with map size? Doesn't have to be a huge number.

 

[Tech Osen]

As I recall, in Civ V you need to build a certain building in each city before you could build your national wonders. I thought that was a pretty crappy prerequisite especially for wide empires where you're constantly founding/conquering cities and may not reach the prerequisite until late in the game. If they changed that I'd be for national wonders

To me that was kindda the point: a bonus to make going tall viable.

 

[Sostratus]

To me that was kindda the point: a bonus to make going tall viable.

The better use for some NWs would be to provide a crucial +% / +per pop bonus in a city, which is the key missing ingredient to help make mega-cities worth it.
The question is really whether NWs should be on a tile of their own or a building. (With interesting potential results- does an Iron Works grant adjacency to adj IZs? Or does it act like a supercharged factory? Or maybe it simply grants a Ruhr Valley esque modifier?)

Ruhr + Oxford + Broadway are almost exactly how civ5's NWs would be implemented into Civ6; a % bonus and a related effect. Of course 6 isn't limited by that. And I think you have plenty of design space for bonuses that are sort of Colosseum-like: helping the city it's in but also nearby cities, so an actual tall empire could have a handful of cities all getting turbocharged by their NWs. (whereas sprawling empires can only cover a small portion of their cities.) If they ever did something with specialists that would be another avenue.

I think they are a missing "capstone" to help really make good cities something special. Plus, think of all the zany future era policy cards/tech effects you could tie into national wonders!

 

[NukeAJS]

It'd be nice to have national wonders again. They could go in existing districts to save space. They'd make going tall better. I doubt that national wonders would be the equalizer between tall vs wide, but they could help.

Side note - anyone ever look at the university of sankore and say to yourself: "that'd make a nice national wonder."?

 

[Socrates99]

Civ V leaned so far in favor of tall that that was unnecessary.

 

[ShakaKhan]

Civ V leaned so far in favor of tall that that was unnecessary.

True, and civ6 leans so far in favor of short and wide. NW's would be a great way to make tall/narrow empires viable again if they were designed as such - have one or several for each yield, and they could be +100% yield globally, but lose 15% per city you control past 4 cities.

 

[mentos15]

Here is what immediately came to mind for me.
A common complaint with 6 and which also hamstrings tall empires is weak and boring specialist yields/effects.
So, let's try to kill 2 birds with one stone here.

And have the "National Wonder" type of empire unique building and / or an additional tier of buildings available to each district type. The new tier is available to build if you have built this district in each of your cities.

The primary purpose of this tier of buildings (or unique building) is to provide a buff to the citizen slot yields for that district type.
Other fun things that come to mind as possibilities to explore or throw away:
- Adds an additional citizen slot(s).
- Adds an additional non-yield bonus / effect if all slots in district are worked

A combination of the 2 ideas could look like: Building the NW provides one blanket bonus to all districts of type (as long as nation has district in every city) and also unlocks the additional building tier, and that tier has a choice of citizen yield building per district -- much like Government District, or Neighborhood work currently. You can have a bit of variety in the few cities you have.

Or it could be that there are unique NW type buildings for the districts that have no citizen slots (like Aqueducts, or Entertainment Complex) that provide an empire wide bonus, and an additional tier of buildings for those districts that do have slots.

Just my brain dump. My mind is swimming with all sorts of specific ideas for each NW or district building type(s) above. But I'm sure some of you do as well, so I'll spare you all the tedium of reading my drivel.

But to the larger point of adding some options for a Tall Civ play. Yes, all for it.

 

[BrotherInJah]

To make it considered as tall vs wide it has to meet certain criteria:

* impactful - give direct yield bonus, increase no. of trade routs, artwork slots, resource..

* availability - it can't be too early as that would still allow go wide post built, has to be linked to number of cities and criteria based on that number (like some percentage) and not just terrain as in this case wide empire have more variety of terrian types. It can't be available too late tough

* not occupying tile - tall is already limited in that matter

So for ne it would be ideal as bonus tier building in each district if majority of cities have that type of building and at the same time it has a combination of other districts. Of course one such building per empire, with cap of two NWs in one city.