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I need some king Domination tips

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by malitano, Oct 14, 2011.

  1. malitano

    malitano Warlord

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    So I enjoy playing Japan in a standard continents king map. I can easily win a tech or cultural victory (earliest cultural victory in 1936). I don't like diplomatic and I want to win my first real domination victory.

    I don't have any problem defending myself but I struggle to keep a technological edge up until the end of the industrial age and at that point I never see myself having enough time to conquer the the world by the early 2000s. Are these unrealistic expectations?

    No matter what setting I open with this is my fundamental strategy in the early game. Let me know what you think, maybe I am doing something wrong:

    tech priorities:
    pottery
    animal husbandry
    wheel
    archery
    math

    wonder priorities:
    temple of artemis
    hanging gardens
    statue of zeus
    great library
    national college

    build order:
    scout
    granary
    worker
    scout/warrior

    policy:
    full tradition

    Ideology:
    one big tall city until I discover iron working and then conquer a CS that has Iron or use a settler (this becomes difficult when my capital doesnt have Iron)
     
  2. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Tradition is the worse of the first three policy trees for domination games. If you really want a fast dom. game, you should focus on iron working and Liberty or Honor. You can go directly there, or you can build the GL first and take IW for free tech. 3 or 4 cities from your own are enough to maintain a huge army. Annexing cities(and build courthouses) is a strong way to get more production powerhouses and to reduce unhappiness.

    For pangea map styles, a beeline to Steel is sufficient to wipe out everybody. For water map styles, take down nearby civs and beeline Navigation to get frigates. Put a ''military base''(by force or by yourself) on the other land masses and upgrade/rush buy from them.

    Sooner you take some opponents/cities in the beginning, easier it will be for the rest of the game. Expect your first sword rush around turn 60 for good results.
     
  3. ArmChairAttila

    ArmChairAttila Chieftain

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    I had problems similar to you. What I did was start playing on the great plains map using the Mongols. I got it in my head that most of the civ's would be destroyed or severely gimped by the industrial era. To do this I had to be-line some military techs and practically ignore culture/science techs. It took some time but I can now win most games on immortal using Mongolia/Russia/Songhi/Japan with a domination victory.

    The reason I like great plains + Mongols is it really teaches you how to prioritize techs and builds for conquest over other things like buildings. Heck if you get your death ball rolling fast enough you will have more than enough money to buy all the buildings you need.
     
  4. KillingMeSoftly

    KillingMeSoftly Warlord

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    In my experience conquering the nearest civilization early is a good way to get a lead on the other AIs. Capitals are powerful cities with plenty of good resources nearby. You should work towards Iron Working as soon as feasible. In this time build several warriors and save as much cash as you can. Also if possible produce a Settler, either manually or through the Liberty policy tree. Have this settler ready when Iron Working is finished researching, and send it to settle directly on the nearest Iron node, preferably one with 6 Iron. You can then immediately upgrade your Warriors to Swordsmen. If you did this early enough, 4-6 Swordsmen is plenty to take out the nearest civilization. If you were a little slow to the draw you may want to research Mathematics next and produce a couple Ballistas.

    After you conquer your first civilization your next goal is to push to Steel and Physics so you can upgrade to Longswordsmen and Trebuchets. As soon as you upgrade you should rush the next civilization with the best lands/cities. Puppet most all of these and possibly annex their capital to have another power-city. After Steel and Physics you should get to Education as soon as possible and build Universities so you don't fall behind.

    With several puppets and two annexed capitals, you will be in a great position to conquer the remainder of the world. Work the lower end (military tech) of the research tree so you're on par or ahead of everyone else in domination tech. So long as you're on equal footing or ahead, winning will be no problem. A key tech you should work for is Dynamite so you can build Artillery.
     
  5. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    About Mongols : It's possible to wait until chivalry before conquering. Keshiks are so darn powerful...

    At king or below you can do the same with Siam's UU before you hit too much pikes. Songhai has a decent UU but he's a pure warmonger. Just get IW and pillage everything. Keep enough workers to repair stuff rapidly.
     
  6. revelation216

    revelation216 NQ Civilopedian

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    Hi there

    I am in exactly the same spot as you OP. I play Japan, King, Dom only, Raging barbs, everything Standard/Medium/Temperate. I am finding myself restarting very often because I find that I have not expanded quickly enough and although I have built almost every wonder possible in Kyoto and generated Osaka to a standard whereby it's my unit producer. I don't get enough military out there and I reckon it's coz I aint built enough cities.

    I build wonders non stop in Kyoto, buy a settler, found Osaka, build barracks+armory there. You don't need to build workers because Pyramids gives you that. IDK why people say Pyramids is a bad wonder, I reckon apart from Great Library and Hanging Gardens it's mandatory. Why waste time building a worker when you could be building a wonder and get fast workers at the end? I go full Tradition and Honor after.

    Downside is I don't expand quickly enough and on a couple of plays I was rushed by the AI and could not hold. But Tradition does give you a capital which produces anything in 5 or less turns. I used to go Honor first as well. I'll try building more cities pre 0AD and see where that gets me.

    Other posters remember we're talking about Japan mainly!
     
  7. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    Focus, focus, focus.

    If you're aiming for early rush, you need to build units, not wonders. The only good reason to build GL is getting a free tech which grants more advanced units and thus military advantage.

    Why to waste 185 :c5production: on 2 workers when you can waste only 140 :c5production: ? Why to wait more than twice as long as you need to get the first worker out and start working improved tiles? GE points aren't worth it.



    Japan rush strategy is very similar to strategy used by other civs with strong medieval UU and even stronger, since intermediate units aren't just sitting around and waiting, but working their butts off. :)

    Research Writing, Pottery, Mining, Bronze Working, Calendar/Masonry - if there are unimproved luxes, Animal Husbandry otherwise, then Philosophy, Construction, Metal Casting. Sell luxes/horses/open borders as usual.

    Capital builds scout, monument, warrior. If non-cultural SC is close by, send the warrior to steal a worker. Otherwise take a loan and buy one. Try to time finishing warrior with Writing, and switch production to GL. Pick Iron Working.

    Take Liberty opener, Citizenship, Collective Rule. You're supposed to get a free settler around the same time GL is completed. Send settler to iron (6 preferably, 4 is enough. 2 can be a stretch, you'll have to ally CS, better cultural). After GL is done capital kicks out some more warriors, to have around 6 in total. Second city starts with library, then monument. When Philosophy lands, capital starts working on NC. Meanwhile upgrade all the warriors to swords and go after you nearest neighbor. If you have spare cash and haven't done it yet - befriend or even ally cultured city state, but don't spend too much. It will take 600 :c5gold: to upgrade 6 swords to samurais (1080 :c5gold: in total to upgrade initial 6 warriors). So make sure to plan ahead. Take loans if needed.

    Finish the rest of the Liberty tree (Representation -> Republic -> Meritocracy). Take GS for finisher, pick Steal. Upgrade all swords to samurais, attach a GG you've probably got by now and go after your next victim. If everything lands right, you'll have 6 swords up for action in early-mid 50's and 6 samurais in early-mid 80's.

    At this point you should have a healthy head start, so it's a good time to make a detour and grab Education. Build Hagia Sophia and take GE. Use him to rush Notre Dame in second city. Pick Piety opener and Organized Religion. Build universities in core cities and fill them with scientists. Kick out additional units as far as resources and money allow you to. If you can hard build Porcelain Tower and other goodies do it. Not really necessary. Sign some RA. On King it's not necessary either.

    From now on everything is very straightforward. Research bottom branch all the way to Rifles. Upgrade samurais. Build barracks and armory in the most productive city. Supplement rifles with some cannons build/bought in that city. Currency, Banking, Economy should be also a top priority for puppets to be able to pump commerce. If there is somebody left after Rifles, go for Dynamite. You can burn GS's from GL and universities to get it. Upgrade promoted (close to logistics) cannons to artillery. Win. :king:
     
  8. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Emperor

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    To my mind, building Wonders non-stop is not conducive to a Domination victory. The only early-game Wonder that directly helps is the Temple of Artemis. Otherwise, build those buildings that are a must (Granary, Barracks, Armory, Stone Works, Water Mill) and concentrate the rest of your production on units.

    You can either build your Wonders later or, better yet, capture them. The earlier that you get your war machine rolling the better your results through the rest of the game. Puppet captured cities, you will get their Research and and its Gold with only a modest Happiness hit. You can always annex the good ones later and buy a Courthouse for 600 Gold to keep your Happiness intact.
     
  9. Derpy Hooves

    Derpy Hooves Grand Inquisitor

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    Last game I played was Arabia King Huge Epic on Earth 12 players with the initial intent of doing a culture victory, I spent most of my cities production time on bazaar for mad cash and all the splendid +science and culture buildings.
    Spent most of the time until Medieval with hardly an army, and being on Eurasia (I started around the coast of China) I had alot of people declaring on me and trying desperately to take my tradition boosted cities.
    But with mad money from 4 strong cities (also the only ones I built the entire game) I held off everything, occasionally rush bought a unit to defend and when I finally connected my Iron I went on a killing spree of my former agressors into a complete 'murder everything on my continent rage' from when I hit Camel archers until the modern era.

    Not counting my scout that ruined himself to archer I did'nt have to properly build a single unit until I had pretty much everything structure built (including military academies, granaries and a lot of other unnecessary stuff) in my roughly 10 big production cities and around 95% of all the wonders (damn you runaway civs on another continent).

    Eventually I stopped playing at around 1960 because I controlled Eurasia, Africa and South America and with 10 turns to go for my Autocracy finisher, finishing my 5th policy and only the Persian capital in North America still standing (with my armies still in south america, slowly taking city for city in middle america. I guess I could've pretty much stopped after having conquered Eurasia but then again, the game was'nt taking 2 minutes per turn to calculate what 1 AI and around 9 AI's with 1 city and a couple of units as army had to do back then.

    Perhaps it's my Epic speed setting but as a Prince player who just advanced to King I'm finding the increase in dificulty minor and am considering emperor for perhaps a bit of extra enjoyment if the mods can't do it for me.

    Oh, and if you wanna war, go for Epic or marathon so you can get the maximum usage out of your army.
     
  10. chgrogers

    chgrogers Prince

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    At this point you have to think. DO I really need 9 1 city CIVs? By this time I would think you have epic warmonger hate and your economy is being fueled in house not by trades. Take em out :)
     
  11. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Emperor

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    Agreed! Let them call you a warmonger - just before you roll them up.
     
  12. revelation216

    revelation216 NQ Civilopedian

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    HUGE thanks for this, I will try it out :)

    By building monument, I'm guessing you are saying don't go Tradition (4 free monuments). What about Honor?

    As for Piety, doesn't that conflict with Rationalism?
     
  13. Glieze

    Glieze Chieftain

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    General build opening: scout - monument - (2nd scout if big map -) worker

    Depending on civ, the policy is either Liberty - if you need free GS to bulb a high cost tech like Chivalry, or honor - both for free GG in the start, but also exp gain and hapiness later on (not to mention gold when you kill units). Go for piety afterwards - happiness for culture buildings. Once you got your military up, happiness becomes the limiting factor and you have to raze/sell cities you dont want.

    Teching is either straight for UU (if it's early), for the techs you need to improve lux resources to sell them off early, for Philosophy for NC to boost research towards your UU, or a mix of the 3.
     
  14. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    Tradition is the worst possible choice for conquest game, as Tabarnak mentioned. Take Liberty. All the way. It unlocks units that are an era ahead of all your opponents. On king your military advantage will last for a long time. Honor is stronger than Tradition, but weaker than Liberty. It can save you a little cash and deal with unhappiness, but it shortens the lifespan of your UU tremendously.
    Piety is needed to solve happiness deficit and compensate the increase in social policies cost when annexing cities. It does conflict with Rationalism. However, it allows bigger population (and population = science) and warmonger hate will prevent from AI to sign many Research Agreements with you anyway. Thus beakers lost from not taking Rationalism is insignificant. Of course, if you can take happiness under control without Piety, you can take Rationalism instead. Usually it doesn't happen.

    And kill the challenge. :)
     
  15. Derpy Hooves

    Derpy Hooves Grand Inquisitor

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    Kind of silly but I actually like having the tiny civ's around, you can always get the minimal amount of trade GPT (which will be the only trades you'll be making at that point anyway due to warmonger/covet/DoF/psychosis) and the reminder that I made them pay for their insolence but graciously let them live, perhaps my example was a bit too focussed as I don't know if it's the 9 crap-tier civ's that are slowing down the game, the huge map, the stuff being calculated in my 30-50 cities or if the game is just having a good long fap every time I press the end turn button from around turn 200+.
    I'll see if murdering them in my next domination game will speed up the game, which will probably be quite necessary as I'll be shoving some mods in there.
     
  16. malitano

    malitano Warlord

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    Finally got a victory in 1976 but I feel guilty that I started isolated. I had 4 cities in my isolated peninsula. capital was gold focused. conquered 2 CS in my little corner and turned one into science and the other to culture focus. the only city I made with a settler was a coastal city surrounded mines, lumbermills or assembly plants. I opted for the tradition start again to get a head start on tech and it worked.

    I attacked the second strongest civ first (aztecs) by moving 6 infantry and 5 artillery to the neighboring continents dominated in half by ottomans and aztecs. I launched my invasion from ottoman territory around the mid 1800s. a few turns later ottoman declared war on the mas well and it became a cool double alliance.

    in 1911 declared war on my neighbor, #1 russia. i got naval superiority so i could send my elite units (now mechanized and rocket) safely while i destroyed as many units as i could with my 5 battle ships and 2 carriers. i took a city they made on my peninsula and they nuked it immediately afterwards. they then sunk one of my carriers with all of their airforce (about 9 fighter attacks in one turn) but in the end, they lost all their air units against my intercept II + sortie Zeros. this was the funnest part of the game.

    From here I landed at the top of the continent and fought a war of attrition for the next 35 years. i got nuked one more time and i nuked the continent about 3 times aiming at their only source of uranium. The remaining 3 civs were easy to kill and not worth mentioning.

    the hardest part of the game was invading russia from the sea. they had equal if not better tech and infinite military resources
     
  17. revelation216

    revelation216 NQ Civilopedian

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    I will take your word for it on Liberty but with regards to the happiness issue it's my understanding that the best way to keep that green is just to not have a lot of cities? I usually just raze everything that has no wonder in it. If I raze multiple cities, yeah I get a rebellion but my cities can handle it.

    Maybe I am missing something. To be a strong military civ, is it necessary to have a lot of cities (more than 6?)

    BTW razing has been the way I've done it ever since I watched youtube, a guy beating Deity with the Chinese. Guy said have few cities, raze everything.
     
  18. revelation216

    revelation216 NQ Civilopedian

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    Pilgrim I tried your strategy and I'm at Turn 127, 300 AD.

    Pangaea Plus, Standard speed, Standard everything. Raging Barbs, Time + Dom victory enabled, Quick Combat

    Civ: Japanese

    Things done so far:
    -I have Steel
    -I have 5 cities, 1 is Persepolis (only foreign city).
    -I razed 1 Persian city.
    -I built 6 Warriors and converted them all to Swords.
    -I lost 4 out of 6 Swords in the siege of Persepolis (unacceptable?)
    -Upgraded remaining 2 to Samurai
    -I made peace with Persia in exchange for over 400 gold and 7gpt (wow)
    -All promotions were Drill, Samurai get shock 1 automatically (unknown if it adds shock 2 if already have shock 1), also mostly hilly terrain
    -Earned a Great General

    Things I am doing
    -Building The Oracle (12 turns, think i might get beaten to it)
    -Building Hagia Sophia (in Persepolis, 22 turns vs 34 in Kyoto!)
    -Researching Education
    -Making sure I build a Barracks in every city

    Things I will do in next 25 turns
    -Will invade Germany (they already have Landsknecht btw)

    Things I haven't done yet
    -Researched: Sailing, Horseback Riding, Currency, Engineering
    -Built courthouse in Persepolis :c5occupied:

    Current stats:
    35 :c5science:
    17 :c5gold: per turn
    417 :c5gold: in the bank
    18 :c5culture: per turn
    259/500 :c5culture:
    4 Iron
    6 Horses
    70/515 Golden Age (Been through 1 already)
     
  19. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    I guess you mean MadDjinn. I cannot remember him saying this, but I don't remember this LP very well. It's been a while...

    Razing useless cities is still a good idea. However, most cities don't have wonders, but not every one of them is useless. Cities with unique luxuries and/or universities, coliseums, markets and culture buildings aren't useless. Cities with universities are good candidates to be annexed, since you can immediately assign scientists. Cities with markets and other commerce buildings will provide lots of cash and should be left as puppets. Coliseums are good for happiness and culture buildings are good for happiness under Piety.

    There are several good reasons not to raze cities.

    - Puppets automatically set on gold focus and increase the income of your empire like nothing else can. More money = more units. Therefore you need to trade post every worked tile (except for resources, of course) around all of your puppets. And research commerce boosting techs rather quickly to let puppets constructing commerce buildings. In addition, duplicate luxuries and strategics can be sold for even more cash.

    - With Meritocracy you get +1 :c5happy: per city connected by road, so net penalty per city is reduced to -2 instead of -3. Coliseum alone makes city itself neutral in terms of happiness and all you need to deal with is population unhappiness. Monument and temple plus circus/stoneworks give you another +3 :c5happy:. These building are cheap and have high build priority. Before we even start counting luxuries and later happiness buildings you've got a self sufficient size 3 city. Later you can take Order opener and reduce per city penalty even more to -1. Add Notre Dame, luxuries - grabbed by new cities and acquired through CS's allied with plundered money, Chichen Itza, Circus Maximus and Forbidden Palace - and you shouldn't be worried about happiness too much. Bottom line, more cities have the potential to gain more net happiness than fewer cities.

    - Having chain of cities across the map connected by road speeds up troops movement significantly. This is important especially when you fight with slow units. Playing Mongols, for example, you can raze without too much thinking ahead. Keshiks are the fastest units in their time, so they advance quickly anyway and can fly back to defense if needed easily. Roads only increase their strength, but aren't as essential as for melee units rushes.

    - Strong production cities could be annexed and turned into units spamming farms. Later in the game most of your units should be rush bought, not hard built, so it's often very convenient (or necessary) to annex a city close to front to rush buy units for immediate availability.

    - Razing cities creates multiple fronts and long noncontinuous border which is very hard to defend.

    - On higher difficulties AI will quickly fill the gaps and get fully functional cities for free. Instead you can sell razing candidates to AI. It gets production-wise useless puppet and you get cash. Win-win for you. On king it's harder to execute, due to AI's low cash flow, but when you can, this is something you should consider.

    Probably there are few more, I cannot remember right now. To summarize all of this, you definitely don't need to keep all cities, but good portion of them benefit you rather than harm.
     
  20. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    Kinda. But depends. If you're lingering around for too long AI has time to build walls. Before you DoW you also should check opponent's cash situation for possibility to rush buy them and be prepared accordingly. When did you start attacking? The key is to do it as early as possible. Also Persia probably is not the best candidate for being the first target, since Darius' flavor dictates very defensive position. He builds lots of defensive units and is often guarded. With strong early UU, which, I assume, you've faced, he might be a tough nut to crack early on.

    You did right. Shock II is not added automatically.

    Why? Especially if you don't think you can make it? Build units, not wonders.

    Definitely unnecessary. You get first promotion (Drill I) trough battle, second (Shock I) from upgrade. This early you don't need barracks even in capital. You'll need barracks and armory before you start massive rush buying cannons/artilleries. Or at least before you start spamming samurais themselves with Shock II, not while upgrading swords. And even then only in 1 top 2 the most productive cities. You'll be limited by resources anyway. Big waste of hammers.

    Landsknechts aren't a problem. But you should kick out more samurais.

    Currency should be high in priority list. Despite the fact you have only 1 puppet, markets in core cities will be beneficial.
    Did you build NC? Science output isn't very high for 6 cities empire.

    Sell horses. You'll never use them. Culture per turn is also rather low, so I guess you didn't ally cultural CS and finished Liberty by your own. Which probably caused some serious delay and put you behind the schedule. When did you get Steal?
     

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