I say! Is ToT worth it?

[CivCube]

I am currently a die-hard C3C fanatic at the moment. Be that as it may, I have heard many good things about Civ 2 as well. "Test of Time" is currently in the bargain bin at my local Software Etc. for a king's ransom of $10.

Should I get it? Or is Multiplayer Gold a taller tower in excellence?

 

[Archer 007]

MGE has better scenarios, but ToT was fun. Worth 10 bucks, i'd say.

 

[Mercator]

MGE is probably a better choice if you don't care for scenarios and modding, and if you absolutely want multiplayer.

ToT has a smaller community supporting it, so you'll have a hard time finding people to play against.

Other than that, it is possible to convert MGE scenarios to ToT format, and ToT has many more possibilities for scenario makers, and several different games to play (e.g. fantasy, sci-fi).

The ToT graphics might need a little getting used to, but that might be different for you because you come from Civ3 and not from a Civ2 background. In any case, it's possible to change them, and there already are mods to fix them.

So yes, $10 is definitely worth it.

 

[Aphex_Twin]

Deffinately yes. I'm a bit surprised it hasn't really caught on.

 

[yoshi]

ToT hasn't caught on because it is essentially MGE with some additions to the Rules.txt file (e.g. some new unit characteristics), a multimap feature (up to 4 simultaneously), and the animated unit graphics which can still turned off and replaced with the MGE unit graphics (79 available units as opposed to MGE's 62).

But if you're not into scenarios, MGE and ToT are almost identical because the Rules.txt additions are not used if you play the Original game on ToT --the additions are used for the Extended Origianl, Fantasy and Sci-fi MODs that come with ToT. So, you will not find the new impassable terrain feature being used in the Original game for instance. Same goes for the multi-map feature. (All the new stuff was added just for the MODs. It's just that you can use these additions in the Original if you want to make more elaborate scenarios.)

And as said before, most people have MGE (the Ultimate Civ2). If you just want to play the original Civ2 as is (i.e. the vanilla game) or are content with MGE scenarios (which are the the majority of available scenarios), then there is absolutely no point to buying ToT unless its just for the graphics.

(But then again, if you can get it for $10 --and find it in the first place-- why not.)


Personally, I bought ToT because of the additions to the macro language (events). The addition of the 'Count=' field to the CREATEUNIT event action alone is a real time saver, not to mention saving space for more events (of which there is lots more than in MGE).


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BTW, if you want to MOD the Original game in ToT you can use the new CityProduction event trigger to remove money (using the ChangeMoney action) from the builder's treasury each time a certain unit is built so as to add a cost of gold to units in addition to build time.
Another cool event is to use the new TakeTechnology event action to cause a particular civ to actually lose tech as a result of a trigger (losing its capital perhaps) --reproducess the loss of knowledge as a result of war and destruction (dark age).

 

[CivCube]

The local Software Etc. had just gotten rid of the bargain bin.

The search continues....

 

[SanPellegrino]

ToT is the most underestimated civ version IMO. the midgard scenario is really great also the one to download from that civ2 designer with multiple worlds.

 

[The Person]

Oooooh, if there just was a way I could get my hands on ToT. Out of what I have heard it's great. BTW, my local game store still has some copies of the original Civ2, but not any of the expansions.

But I join CivCube on my/our epic quest to find ToT. It seems worth it.

 

[yoshi]

Last I checked, there are plenty of copies on Ebay --frequently sold with a copy of Majesty (I got my ToT this way, and cheap too...since nobody else bid ).

What's hard is getting a copy of Civ2:MGE --I tried on Ebay but kept getting out-bid (I think it's those damn game shop owners who then resell it at a much higher price, the bastards ).

(The reason why stores don't usually sell ToT is because people don't buy it.)

BTW, ToT is a stand-alone game, not an expansion of the Original Civ2 --nor is MGE for that matter (only CinC and FW are).

 

[Streiter]

I think it's worth it, too...

It's really fun in Scifi, an Empire in space

and once you get up to Nona these monsters come to kick your... lower part of your back ( ), and you have to fight them of...

Or the extended original with those freaking aliens @.@ (thought: GROAR! WAR! ^^ damn, I died o0° ^^)

I usually install both games always, cause they are both fun to play, and the rules are pretty similar afaik...

So I'd say: Go and get it, it's imho the same level, only a bit bigger

 

[blackthorn]

To all who search for ToT.
Keep looking its out there. I had to blow an inch of dust off the copy i came across.
I found it at target for 10.00 .
Well worth it!!!!!

 

[mintyfreshdeath]

I originally got ToT as part of a cover disk for a computer magazine. Full version too.

 

[Man of Barnes]

Its worth it. Amen.

 

[Ren]

Originally posted by mintyfreshdeath
I originally got ToT as part of a cover disk for a computer magazine. Full version too.

Yeah I got that too, but I've since lost it

 

[Pariah]

ToT is definitely worth the £6 or so I paid for a used copy from Amazon.co.uk. From what I've experienced so far, it is somewhat intermediate between basic Civ2 and Civ3 (though I'm probably breaking all sorts of gamers' motifs, and sounding very naive, by saying that).

Are you persuaded yet, CivCube?

 

[Catfish]

Yeah, it's worth it. Since I obtained ToT, over 3 years ago, I haven't considered going back to the older versions. These days, you get a dirt cheap, upgraded version of, what is for many people here, a favourite game engine. Why wouldn't you want an upgraded version? Considering its enhanced scenario possibilities, I'm really surprised that many designers have chosen to ignore it.

I guess the two main issues to consider here are multi-player and the availability of scenarios. The most popular (but not necessarily the best) version of Civ2 is MGE, so if multi-player gaming is important, MGE might be the way to go. ToT also supports multi-player, but it's not back-compatible with MGE. Scenarios for ToT are also fairly scarce, with most being mere modifications of the standard rules. There are, however, a few ToT scenarios currently in development. So again MGE has the edge here.

To list the advantages of the ToT engine, I'll just quote myself from another thread:

Off the top of my head: it supports 15-bit colour, animated sprites, up to 80 different unit types, up to 4 maps/game, 96k events file, increased macro functionality, expanded Civilopedia, and additional unit abilities and control over the tech tree.

The following is a list of my main gripes with the ToT engine (compared to other versions): aggressive diplomacy model (same as MGE) when compared to FW, the conspicuous and inflexible health bar (although Mercator's SpriteGen utility helps in some situations) and the dog ugly default graphics (most of which I've changed, although unfortunately there is very little 24-bit graphical material for ToT on the Internet – most of it's regurgitated 8-bit stuff from the older versions of the game). There are a few other issues which don't bother me, but which may bother others: no scenario editor, no map editor (Mercator – again – has solved this), no Wonder movies and no combat animation. There may be more that escapes me at the present – I don't own MGE and it's been a long time since I played FW.

My guess is that, considering the price these days, the main factor contributing to ToT's lack of popularity is its lack of popularity – a type of positive feedback effect. It's also old. So who's going to take the plunge?

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by Wobbegong
My guess is that, considering the price these days, the main factor contributing to ToT's lack of popularity is its lack of popularity – a type of positive feedback effect. It's also old. So who's going to take the plunge?

Don't you mean NEGATIVE feedback? But I know what you're talking about: those who have, get, and if few people use it, fewer will take it up.

 

[Catfish]

Originally posted by Pariah
Don't you mean NEGATIVE feedback?

No, I mean POSITIVE feedback. A positive feedback loop is a reinforcing process or snowball effect. If you had a case of unpopularity increasing popularity, you would have a negative feedback effect – I can't really think of an example of this, except say underground music which then becomes trendy, thereby causing it to lose its initial appeal, ie, a process of working against itself. You are confusing the result with the process. The vicious cycle of poverty is a good example of a positive feedback loop with negative results.

 

[Yuri2356]

and no combat animation.

There are combat animations in ToT. The attacking unit is animated, but not the defender.

 

[Catfish]

There are combat animations in ToT. The attacking unit is animated, but not the defender.

Yeah, that's true, but I was referring to the 8 combat frames from the icons file. The absence of that animation sequence, characteristic of older versions of Civ2, apparently bothers some people. The fact that each ToT unit has its own attack animation probably explains why they dispensed with the old method. However, be aware that many users (like me) don't use the original ToT unit graphics and instead use custom static units – this is especially the case for scenarios. Such users will get no combat animation of either kind.