I want a canadian civ :(

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: How about getting this back on topic: Adding Canada as a civ.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Kierkegaard]

Is it really so bold to say that American Enlightenment thinking changed the world? I'll be the first to admit, we have strayed WAAY too far from our founding principles. We are WAY too religious (we didn't start that way) and we are way too concerned with world politics (we didn't used to be).

But the ideas that STARTED our country changed the entire world. THAT is the debt that the world owes to America. That is the debt that Americans owe to their ancestors. Current-day Americans are NOT living up to those ideals. Bush AND Obama are both pissing on those principles, as has every other president since the early 1900s.

I'm not saying America doesn't have it's LARGE problems. All countries do(yes ALL...including Canada). But America is unique because it was the first, and still the best, creator of modern democracy and civil rights in the world. If we aren't careful, we are going to be the last ones to turn the lights out on those ideals as well.

All respect for the moderators. So I will not reply too much. But I would suggest you learn the history that also apply outside of America because what you are saying is untrue.

 

[stethnorun]

All respect for the moderators. So I will not reply too much. But I would suggest you learn the history that also apply outside of America because what you are saying is untrue.

Ok...well without even knowing what you are referring to, I think I can safely disregard that. Maybe a little less vague next time.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Our soverign territory, which has been a part of Canada for over 140 years isn't ours?

Well, not quite that long as sovereign. It was English for most of that time.

Regarding a Canadian civ, I don't mean to offend, but Canadians are culturally Americans. Canada's existence as a polity is a bit of a historical anomaly, owing mainly to the inability of newly formed 18th and early 19th century English creole state (the USA) to take control of all the continent colonised by their people. There is a reason the USA takes its name from the whole continent and Canada takes its name from a French word for the St Lawrence river valley! Compare Ireland and Northern Ireland ... no-one thinks there should be (if there were any) two Irish civilizations just because a London-based state prevented their political unity in the last century or so!

 

[mushutoku]

World probably owes America (and USSR, BTW) the end of nazism. On the other side, we can say that the rise of Hitler in Germany in the '30s is a consequence of two facts (among others, of course):
1) The 1929 crisis, which started in USA
2) The defeat of the German Empire in WW1, that would have not been possible without the american participation.

So we could say that, yes, USA saved the world form Hitler, but we can also say that maybe if Germany had won WW1 he would have never existed as a political leader.
Anyway, this is a game, a "what if" that cannot be checked, so it is useless to get agry at it.
And at the beginning the post was about Canada, so how it ended about USA?

 

[Pangur Bán]

I don't think the USA deserves any credit for the end of Nazism. The USSR crushed Germany on its own; the US didn't even invade continental Europe until it was clear that Germany was in the process of being conquered. A hyena grabbing some of the lion's kill methinks.

 

[Pangur Bán]

They do of course, in fairness, deserve all the credit for halting the advance of Stalinist power in Europe, which wouldn't have been all that much better than Nazism.

 

[mushutoku]

Yes, but what about a canadian civ?

 

[Racsoviale]

I can see why one would like their country to be represented, but I believe there are quite some countries which for logistical reasons gets lumped together. the americas are a good example, another would be us scandinavians being lumped together as vikings. I have no problems being a viking but such a grouping implies that scandinavia is a unified culture.
This I believe a few Swedes and Danes would argue against through history there have been quite a lot of bloodshed between us northerners. But anyway we are grouped together as the vikings, and that really is'nt such a big deal since it would seem pointless(to most nonscandinavians) to have a Swedish, Norwegian, Icelandic, Finnish and Danish civ. I see this as the same reason the americas has been lumped together as it is.

 

[mushutoku]

I can see why one would like their country to be represented .

That is the point!

 

[AmazonQueen]

I can see why one would like their country to be represented, but I believe there are quite some countries which for logistical reasons gets lumped together. the americas are a good example, another would be us scandinavians being lumped together as vikings. I have no problems being a viking but such a grouping implies that scandinavia is a unified culture.
This I believe a few Swedes and Danes would argue against through history there have been quite a lot of bloodshed between us northerners. But anyway we are grouped together as the vikings, and that really is'nt such a big deal since it would seem pointless(to most nonscandinavians) to have a Swedish, Norwegian, Icelandic, Finnish and Danish civ. I see this as the same reason the americas has been lumped together as it is.

But America is only the US, you can see that from the leaders and city list. It doesn't incorporate Canada.

The more civs to choose from the better IMO which is why the OP should head off to the mods forum and peruse the mods for Canadian civs.

 

[stethnorun]

But America is only the US, you can see that from the leaders and city list. It doesn't incorporate Canada.

The more civs to choose from the better IMO which is why the OP should head off to the mods forum and peruse the mods for Canadian civs.

I would disagree, actually. Personally, I would prefer that there were FEWER civs, but that each civ had a MUCH more unique feel. Instead of 1 UU and 1 UB, each civ should have almost ALL unique buildings and units (obviously there would be some overlap, but at the very least, the art for each civ should be distinct.

I would rather have like 8 civs that were COMPLETELY unique for one another, rather than have 50 that are pretty much the same as each other. The BAT mod does a good job of simulating this, but it would be much better if it were coming from Firaxis in the first place.

 

[thekaje]

Well, not quite that long as sovereign. It was English for most of that time.

Regarding a Canadian civ, I don't mean to offend, but Canadians are culturally Americans. Canada's existence as a polity is a bit of a historical anomaly, owing mainly to the inability of newly formed 18th and early 19th century English creole state (the USA) to take control of all the continent colonised by their people. There is a reason the USA takes its name from the whole continent and Canada takes its name from a French word for the St Lawrence river valley! Compare Ireland and Northern Ireland ... no-one thinks there should be (if there were any) two Irish civilizations just because a London-based state prevented their political unity in the last century or so!

I'm not sure this is a very strong argument against a Canadian civ. At the time of the American revolution, lots of colonists fled northward in order to remain loyal to the crown. These colonists fought off the Americans in the War of 1812. If anything, this is evidence of a fundamental cultural difference. Eventually, they split from the crown by peaceful agreement, and now they are faithfully and distinctively "Canadian"--something they know even if Americans don't. So it is a distinct culture, even if Canada the country has not been a powerbroker on the world stage.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Well, not quite that long as sovereign. It was English for most of that time.

This is incorrect. Canada has been a sovereign nation since July of 1867, according to my citizenship studies. If you want to pick at straws, it was a Dominion at the time, with the British Monarchy as the head of state, but for all intents and purposes, it was it's own self governing country, AFAIK.

And that's the end of my participation in this stupid argument.

To the OP: (If you're still reading by this point)
As mentioned, there are a couple of really good stand alone Canada mods, and Canada has been nicely incorporated into several other general mod packs. The problem is that some of the mods have not yet been updated to 3.19 compatibility. IIRC, Civ Gold has the best number of Canadian leaders represented, but it has yet to be updated AFAIK. I thought it was pretty good when I played it, but it was so big that it took forever to load. If you don't have a really high powered machine, it might be fairly slow for you.

Good luck with your search.

 

[AmazonQueen]

I would disagree, actually. Personally, I would prefer that there were FEWER civs, but that each civ had a MUCH more unique feel. Instead of 1 UU and 1 UB, each civ should have almost ALL unique buildings and units (obviously there would be some overlap, but at the very least, the art for each civ should be distinct.

I would rather have like 8 civs that were COMPLETELY unique for one another, rather than have 50 that are pretty much the same as each other. The BAT mod does a good job of simulating this, but it would be much better if it were coming from Firaxis in the first place.

Which is why its good its a moddable game. That way we can both get what we want.
I don't see it as better just because it came from Firaxis and is official. Its noticeable that moddable games have a lot longer shelf life. No game is ever going to be perfect for everybody.

 

[jasonstarr]

Btw i found that Rise of mankind + Added civ pack has canada once i figure out why i get a C++ runtime error on ROM i will be playing ROM so my problem is solved
you may now go back to your historical debate

and canada IS NOT CUTURALLY AMERICAN, WE ARE CULTURALLY BRITAN we are the descendents of both natives and diffrent europeans, we are a true cutural melting pot.

 

[Abegweit]

This is incorrect. Canada has been a sovereign nation since July of 1867, according to my citizenship studies. If you want to pick at straws, it was a Dominion at the time, with the British Monarchy as the head of state, but for all intents and purposes, it was it's own self governing country, AFAIK.

No idea what your citizenship studies may have said but this is simply not true. Given the abominable quality of history taught in Canadian schools (like government schools everywhere), I'm not surprised that this twisted version is promulgated and historical fact is simply pushed aside.

The independence of Canada was a process spanning more than 200 hundred years starting with the Conquest from France in 1745/1759 and ending finally in 1982. It definitely was not a single event. Furthermore, the most important step in this process was undoubtedly Responsible Government which came in the 1820s - 1840s, decades before Confederation. Next on the list is certainly the Dominion Act of 1931. The latter, note well, was an act of the Parliament of Great Britain, not that of Canada.

The BNA of 1867 was a political re-organization of the British North American colonies (hence its name). It had absolutely nothing to do with either independence or sovereignty. It split the colony of Canada into two provinces organized in a federal union. At the same time, two other colonies were annexed. As New Brunswick and Nova Scotia were forced into this union by the Imperial Government against the will of their peoples, they obviously were not independent.

Three other colonies were annexed shortly thereafter. Fantastically expensive bribes were paid to BC and PEI in order to convince them to join the union. Manitoba, like New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, was annexed by Imperial edict. In that case it took war to impose the union on the reluctant people.

Scarcely a glorious past. But then the history of most countries is one of war and conquest. Canada is no different in this regard.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I would disagree, actually. Personally, I would prefer that there were FEWER civs, but that each civ had a MUCH more unique feel. Instead of 1 UU and 1 UB, each civ should have almost ALL unique buildings and units (obviously there would be some overlap, but at the very least, the art for each civ should be distinct.

I would rather have like 8 civs that were COMPLETELY unique for one another, rather than have 50 that are pretty much the same as each other. The BAT mod does a good job of simulating this, but it would be much better if it were coming from Firaxis in the first place.

There is a good reason this isn't implemented, and you need only look at RTS games for a hint ----> it's extremely difficult to correctly balance even 3-4 races/civs/whatever if they are completely different. Eight? Are you kidding me? By the time such a thing could be balanced through typical gameplay observation today there would be two sequels released, if that ever happened.

I do like the idea of distinct artwork and I have no problems adding Canada (or any civ that actually exists/existed really) at all although the leader choice would be an interesting debate for Canada as it is/was with other countries.

 

[Kierkegaard]

I wouldn't want less civilizations for sure. Imo the max unique buildings and units may not be higher than 3. Because basicly it doesn't matter how a building calls, it had mostly the same purpose for several civilizations.

I wouldn't mind a Canadian civilization (I don't think anyone would). But as I said there are more civilizations before Canada that would make more sense. Luckly there are for (nationalistic) people enough room for modifications in civilization. I think there is somewhere a belgian civilization too, although I wouldn't download it because like someone said before I coun't the belgian people under the dutch ones.

 

[Pangur Bán]

This is incorrect. Canada has been a sovereign nation since July of 1867, according to my citizenship studies. If you want to pick at straws, it was a Dominion at the time, with the British Monarchy as the head of state, but for all intents and purposes, it was it's own self governing country, AFAIK.

Well, that's government's propaganda. Canada didn't become sovereign until 1982.

I'm not sure this is a very strong argument against a Canadian civ. At the time of the American revolution, lots of colonists fled northward in order to remain loyal to the crown. These colonists fought off the Americans in the War of 1812. If anything, this is evidence of a fundamental cultural difference. Eventually, they split from the crown by peaceful agreement, and now they are faithfully and distinctively "Canadian"--something they know even if Americans don't. So it is a distinct culture, even if Canada the country has not been a powerbroker on the world stage.

It'd be evidence of political division, the entirety of British North America being split down ideological lines between monarchists and republicans ... a division that was not geographical. In British North America the cultural division was between the south and the north, the slave-owning latifundia of the Caribbean and (what is now) the US South, and the North (what are now the US north and eastern Canada). To this day there is the same cultural division, the only major change being the disappearance of whites from most of the Caribbean. People in Mass have more in common with Newfoundlanders than they do with Georgians, and so on.