I want to learn about America - universities

[Rodgers]

As usual you are presented with a bunch of cliches and mangled news stories that make up my knowledge of this particular aspect of US life. Sorry for anyone new to these threads - none of it is any kind of an insult

Here we go....

1. Admission

This is based on your high school grades - you get a grade average based on your exams(and coursework?) - you take these at 18?. You then apply to the university of your choice - is there an interview? I imagine there has to be a reference provided by a teacher as well? Places like Harvard and Yale often let in students just because their father went there.

You can tell a bad university very easily as it usually has the word "State" at the end of it's name. The good ones are - Harvard, Yale, MIT and the one in New York.

2. Funding

Every university charges for students to attend - the better the university the higher the fees? All American parents have a "college fund" which they have been paying into since the birth of their child. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to afford to send them there. How much are you charged?. There are some (government?) scholarship funds but these are for very poor people only - usually urban black children.

While at college most students will work in a burger bar or some other such menial job to get by. Sometimes they take a year off to raise the money before going.

3. Sports

College sports ("football" and basketball only?) are as popular as the "big leagues" with TV coverage and large stadiums etc. Some students are there purely for their sports skills and are given a fake degree course they dont have to pass to enable them to attend. If they are really good they can get drafted into a major sports team after graduating. This is quite a formal system with rules etc applying (I am aware of how the NFL draft works). The colleges must make some money out of all this to make it worth while - TV rights and ticket revenues?

4. Social Life

If you want to get any knid of a social life you have to join a "fraternity" or a "sorority" - these are social clubs of some kind? They organise events (are these connected with the "Freshmans Ball"? What is that? Self-explanatory?) and are single sex in membership.

Everyone wants to join the "right" F or S - they are usually called after greek letters. If you are unpopular you end up in a rubbish one and (somehow) your life is much less interesting as a result.

After leaving college these societies promote a king of "old boys network" so being in a bad one can affect future job prospects.

When you join an F or S there are initiation rights called "Hazing" -this seems to involve forced drinking, removal of clothes and being beaten up (spanked with some sort of paddle?) or publicly humiliated. Older members do this to new recruits.


5. Accomodation

The F or S you join will provide halls for you to live in when you arrive for your 1st year - this is another reason to get the right F or S as the quality of the accomodation you receive will be affected. All halls are single sex.

After your 1st year you move out and find your own place.

6. Spring Break

This is the basis for a lot of rubbish films about college kids getting up to "high jinx" - this seems to involve a trip to the beach - usually Miami - and huge amounts of drinking. Are there any other events apart from this and the Graduation Ball and Freshman's Ball?

I await your comments

 

[baseballtwin86]

Originally posted by Rodgers

1. Admission

This is based on your high school grades - you get a grade average based on your exams(and coursework?) - you take these at 18?. You then apply to the university of your choice - is there an interview? I imagine there has to be a reference provided by a teacher as well? Places like Harvard and Yale often let in students just because their father went there.

You can tell a bad university very easily as it usually has the word "State" at the end of it's name. The good ones are - Harvard, Yale, MIT and the one in New York.

Admissions are based on a ton of things. Extra-curricular activities, like helping out your community, church activities, sports, and clubs at schools, show how well rounded a person is. Colleges love extra-curricular activities. Also, SAT scores are very important. There are two sections, a Verbal and Math section. The Verbal with analogies, critical reading, and sentence completion. The Math has basic algebra and geometry. Each section is worth 800 points, the perfect score being the elusive 1600. Anyone with a 1600 is almost certainly going to be accepted to Harvard, Yale, or MIT. The national average is like a 1010. (I got a 1500 ). Schools of higher education like Harvard are now following a program of need-blind admissions. The admissions process does not factor in financial status so that the university can get the best quality students. Letters of recommendations are written by one's teacher's in the admission process. State schools are always cheaper than private schools, and are often large, and usually not as good as a private school. Acceptance rates to colleges vary from just 10% at Harvard to 100% at Community Colleges. Community College is usually for kids who did not do well in high school. They are usually located by county, and offer a minimal education. Personally I want to go to Harvard, Duke, or MIT, but I will have to get extremely lucky. Hope that answers some of your questions. Someone needs to get a thread started about European school systems .

 

[knowltok2]

1. Interview depends on the university. I believe the better ones require one. Admission is based upon test scores, high school grades, and activities in high school. The first two are the most important. As for Harvard and Yale, I don't think it is so much that daddy went there, but that daddy is rich and money talks.

2. True on the first part. They all charge (Except for the service acedemies). Not everyone has a college fund. It is possible to work one's way through college (Maybe not Harvard, but most schools). There are also student loans available. Scholarships come in all shapes and sizes. There are some for acedemics, some for athletics, some for certain groups of people, and some for female music majors from Slippery Rock County (Just an example, anyone can set up a scholarship with just about whatever criteria they want. However you don't find too many that give money to white males just because they are white males).

3. Football and Basketball are the big sports, and most of what you said is true. Athletes are not supposed to get fake degrees or anything, and most of them are smart enough to get a degree on their own. Some however are given quite a bit of help, and there are occasions of cheating. Athletes can also be drafted before they graduate, and some basketball players are drafted without even going to college.

4. Fraternities and Sororities do not dominate most school's social lives. They are small exclusive clubs that charge a substantial membership fee. I'll let someone else cover the Greek part of college life, as I have no particular use for it.

 

[Archbob]

No, No, No. Harvard rejected 2/3 of all students who applied with a perfect 1600 score. Their usual acceptance rate is around 11%. A 1600 is going to give you a leg up on the competition, but nowhere guarantees you'll get in.

Also depending on your major, Harvard may not be a great place to go. I'm into computer engineering so Harvard whould be a waste for me so I am Attending the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaigne, ranked 5th in the country for engineering.

Harvard is for study things like literature, law, etc .

 

[baseballtwin86]

I highly doubt the 2/3 statement. Harvard does not release SAT mean scores, or how many people are admitted with a certain score. According to the Harvard website :

Harvard does not admit students by the numbers. Most of our successful applicants have SAT scores ranging from 600 to 800 [per test section], but high test scores are no guarantee of admission and low scores do not necessarily mean exclusion. Some students with perfect scores are not admitted while other students who may have more modest scores are. There are simply too many other factors to consider in making admissions decisions

I would say that 10 or 20% are not admitted with 1600. I have also heard that an African American with a 1600 has a much better chance of getting accepted than a white with the same score. It seems as though some schools admit more minorities even if there is a slip in credentials, in order to have a more ethnically balanced school. In other words, affirmative action in college admissions.

 

[Padma]

1. Admission:

Others have already covered this pretty well. High school grades, SAT/ACT scores, extracurricular activities, etc. All that goes into the admission picture. Money does sometimes enter the picture, especially for private universities. Let's face it. If "daddy" will buy them a new football stadium on the condition that they accept"junior", "junior" will be accepted.

"State" does not indicate a bad school. It just means that at least some of the operating costs are received from the state. The school may still be quite excellent; see Fallen Angel Lord above. Another example, Iowa State University is a leader in veterinary science. It also has a strong engineering department.

2. Funding:

All the schools charge. (The service academies don't charge $$, they charge the next 4+ years of your life after graduation serving in the armed forces.) Private schools, especially the "name" schools (Harvard, Yale, Princton, et.al.) charge more, while public/state schools are cheaper. (They are subsidized by the state, after all.) Plus, many states charge less (or even nothing!) for "locals", i.e., residents of that state, than they do for out-of-state attendees. Cost to the student can run to tens of thousands of dollars per year for the "name" schools. Thus the push for "college funds" by the banks. (Of course, any money you put into a bank is available for the bank to use, so ....)

Many people do not have a college fund. These people go to colege either on the backs of their parents' wealth, by using loans/grants, or by scholarships, or by working their way through. I think most people spend the first X years after graduation paying back student loans. In my case, for instance, I had a small scholarship, some loans and grants, the GI Bill (a special bonus for military "veterans" - pays for up to 36 months of schooling), and work-study (I worked for the college as a custodian to help pay my way). I finally paid everything off about 6 years after I graduated.

3. Sports:

College sports are definitely as popular as the "big leagues". The College World Series (baseball) is held here in Omaha every year, and the place goes nuts! The University of Nebraska - Lincoln football stadium is considered the state's 3rd largest city during every home game.

"Fake" degree courses are not tolerated by the better universities. An athlete is expected to have a well-rounded education. They may slip into "easier" courses, such as a generic Liberal Arts degree, but many of the better athletes opt for harder degrees. As far as what the school gets out of their programs, a winning team means the sports boosters will give more money to the school, to help insure another winning season, to get more money, etc.

4. Social Life:

The "Greek Letter" fraternities (male) and sororities (female) are usually small "elite" groups, although there are some that are based on socializing (read ). I never had much to do with any of them.

5. Accomodations:

Most universities provide dormitories for the students to live in. Cost is in addition to the tuition, so it can be cheaper to rent a place off-campus. Still, the dorms (and frat "houses") on campus are the center of the school's social scene, so many, if not most, students live there. Dorms may or may not be segregated by sex, depending on the school.

6. Spring Break:

This is actually simply what the name implies: a spring break from classes. It usually occurs roughly around Easter. However, a small, but VERY visible percentage of students use this time to hit the beaches of the Gulf Coast (Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas) and cut loose in a wild party. The towns along the coast are ambivilent about this. On the one hand, they love all the money these kids spend. On the other hand, their beaches get incredibly congested, the kids litter everywhere, they drink, do drugs, have sex, you name it, all over the place, generally creating a huge public nuisance. Some towns have actually considered closing themselves off from spring break partyers.

 

[Greadius]

Yeah! Finally one I know a lot about

Originally posted by Rodgers
1. Admission
This is based on your high school grades - you get a grade average based on your exams(and coursework?) - you take these at 18?. You then apply to the university of your choice - is there an interview? I imagine there has to be a reference provided by a teacher as well? Places like Harvard and Yale often let in students just because their father went there.

Usually people 'know' what college they're going to a good year before they do. There are too many factors to name what determines if you get into a specific school or not, but most of it has to do with how good the schools think you'll make them look OR how well you'll keep them a financially viable institution.
There is a big difference between private and public universities, though, since public universities aren't under as much pressure to make money, and are under more pressure to accept a wide range of students.

Originally posted by Rodgers
You can tell a bad university very easily as it usually has the word "State" at the end of it's name. The good ones are - Harvard, Yale, MIT and the one in New York.

Utter rubbish. The top 10 Universities in the country are probably private, but the true quality of the education is based almost entirely on perception. Its very important to WHAT you want to study, since many universities vary in the different focuses of their programs. For example, here at FSU we are dependant on our Crimenology program and football for our prestige. I fall into neither of those catagories.

Originally posted by Rodgers
2. Funding

I took a year off and worked while in my first two years, now I'm mooching off the government for the rest
Almost everyone I know gets a pell grant, which is a long form they fill out and get free government money in exchange. A lot of people take student loans to avoid work, but the rates are relatively easy. A lot of people spunge off their parents.
For example, for the 4 people living in my dorm room, 3 of us get pell grants, 1 of us works, 1 of us spunges off his parents, 1 of them is borrowing money, and 1 of us (that would be me) is paying out of his own pocket.
There is no formula.

Originally posted by Rodgers
3. Sports

I can hear the crowd from here. Our entire administrative building is BUILT INTO the stadium.

Originally posted by Rodgers
4. Social Life

I don't know anyone in a frat, but a few girls in a sorority. Of course, if I had a social life it might help though

Originally posted by Rodgers
5. Accomodation

Dorms populate a lot more people here than the frats or sororities. On campus living isn't necessarily cheaper, and some of them can be restrictive (per parents demands). However, its much more convenient. A parking pass on our campus is the equivalent of a glorified hunting license. I pity commuters.

Originally posted by Padma
However, a small, but VERY visible percentage of students use this time to hit the beaches of the Gulf Coast (Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas) and cut loose in a wild party. The towns along the coast are ambivilent about this. On the one hand, they love all the money these kids spend. On the other hand, their beaches get incredibly congested, the kids litter everywhere, they drink, do drugs, have sex, you name it, all over the place, generally creating a huge public nuisance.

Only 8 more months to go

 

[Bamspeedy]

In addition to the traditional 4 year (or longer) universities and colleges, there are techical colleges. Tech colleges are usually just 2 year programs that is far cheaper than attending a 4 year university. Tech schools focus more on what your particular field is. I went to a tech school for 2 years for accounting, and I still had to take some basic classes like speech, pychology, sociology, etc., that didn't really deal with accounting. In a university I would have had to take more of those other classes that don't deal directly with accouting, but gives you a more 'well-rounded' education.

Tech schools don't have classes for you to be a brain surgeon obviously, but it's just as good if you want to be a nurse, cop, accountant, mechanic, be in sales marketing, etc. The 2-year program is usually more for those people who don't have alot of money/tons of scholarships/needs to be working full-time while taking classes and wants to get the classes done and get a jump start on gettting a job in their chosen profession.

Tech schools usually don't have dorms, but the tech school I went to several years ago, now is offering dorms (the hotel next to it, went out of business and the tech school bought it and turned it into a dorm). Tech schools don't have fraternities either and you are more likely to see a wider range in the age of people who attend the tech school. Tech schools appeal to some people who are middle-aged and later who are looking to possibly make a career change, but don't want to spend 4 years and all that money at a major college.

Attending a tech school costs about $1,000 a year (probably a little more, maybe a little less depending on how many classes you sign up for). Admission to a tech school is real easy, as they usually will accept almost anybody. Some tech schools do have sports teams, but are no where near as popular as the bigger colleges, obviously. There isn't scholarships to athletes for a tech school.

 

[MuddyOne]

1. Admission

The high school grades are based on exams and coursework for each course you take during your 3/4 years in High school. Generally your ranking in the class is used, not your actual GPA as this could vary greatly from region to region. State schools generally have a sliding scale, where the better you do on the SAT, the lower your class ranking can be.

The SAT is generally taken your Senior year.

Prestige schools generally take a more "big picture" view, looking at activities etc.

Their are several state schools that excel in specific areas, though the ones that I can think of are University of [statename], not something State.

2. Funding

Their are a variety of scholarships available through both the government and private parties. Some take family finances into account, others don't. State schools are generally affordable to people within the state at low/no costs. Private schools can run into tens of thousands per year, plus room and board.

I served 4 years in the military to get several excellent educational benefits.

The only two reasons I could see to take a year off before attending college is because you need a break from schoolling, or to establish residency in another state to get the lower resident rates. The money saved by working a year would be minimal.

I think most working while attending university has more to do with the parents paying the bills, but not providing "fun money." Though students from poor families do actually need to cover tution expenses with their work.

3. Sports

I'm from Texas, visitors often mistake High School stadiums for College Stadiums. So it is very popular here. Fake degrees were a bigger problem in the past, I would say it rarely happens currently. They do make money in various ways relating to sports, I think the biggest is from alumni contributions though.

4. Social Life

Frats and sororitys are over-portrayed in ALOT of films. They can be useful in making contacts for obtaining jobs, but most people aren't overly concerned with obtaining membership. Hazing is illegal on most campuses now.

Often which school you attended has more to do with getting on the "Old Boys Network" than which frat you belonged to. Texas A&M has one of the strongest networks around here. "Your from yell you say? yell what?"

6. Spring Break

Similar to Winter break. There are various ways to spend your time off. Drinking huge amounts of alcohol is a general pastime while in school so why not during the break as well

 

[VoodooAce]

Well, I don't know about all that, and I can't exactly prove this out statistically or by their record either, so you'lll just have to trust me, but USC has the best football team! Don't bother checking up on that, just trust me, its true.

And the hottest chicks.

 

[Rodgers]

I tried typing a responase to all of this last night but got caught by the site crashing

Anyway, it seems to me then that Frats and Sororities are a bit like the Freemasons then - no real point to them, just a kind of "gentlemans/ladies club". Am I right?

Over here the admission process is pretty similar in terms of what the unis will take into account (activities, references, exam grades etc). There is a govt body handling all admisions applications (there are no private unis here). You are allowed to apply to a maximum of 8 (or is it 6?) unis. This is done in your final year of school (ie at age17/18). Some unis will deal with the application by post only, some need an interview - after that you will receive one of the following replies from your 8 (or 6) unis :-

1. Rejection

2. Unconditional acceptance

3. Acceptance conditional upon achieving certain grades in your A-Level exams (ie those you take in your final year in school), if you haven't already taken them.

If you have received only conditional offers and you fail to make the grades required then you can go through "clearing". This is a system whereby students desperate to get on a course and unis desperate for students can sort themselves out. Going through clearing can have happy results for the students but usually involves doing a popular course at a rubbish uni or an unpopular one at a good uni.

Most unis receive state funding linked to the number of students they are teaching so they will try and suck up as many students as possible through the clearing system to guarantee their financial position.

As for student life, this seems pretty much the same as for you guys, except we dont have any college sports on the same level - the only exception being the Oxford v Cambridge boat race.

There aren't any military schools here but the army, navy or air force will sponsor you through an ordinary uni if you intend to join up afterwards.

Students are now almost entirely self-financing and tuition fees are also charged (about £1000 per term I think). There are soft loans from the govt to cover these and living costs. The National Union of Students estimates that most graduates will leave uni with around £10-12000 of debt. In the past (ie when I was at uni)there used to be a system of govt grants based on your parents income (you could just about live off these and there weren't any fees charged by unis either) but these have gone now.

 

[Chris85]

Originally posted by Padma
College sports are definitely as popular as the "big leagues". The College World Series (baseball) is held here in Omaha every year, and the place goes nuts! The University of Nebraska - Lincoln football stadium is considered the state's 3rd largest city during every home game.

I went to like 5 games at the College World Series, it kicked ass. I got my tickets for the Nebraska vs Arizona State game next month and my tickets for the Huskers to there get revenge against Colorado in Lincoln during November.

In Nebraska we treat the Nebraska Cornhuskers like a professional team, because we haven't got a professional team of our own. During Nebraska football gameday the entire state pretty much comes to a stand still.

 

[Gastric ReFlux]

There are three important college classes, and that's all ye need to know:

1. Beer 101
2. Pizza 101
3. Rocks for Jocks

 

[Richard III]

Re: funding, the Ivy League is actually fairly progressive about student funding. All Ivy League schools automatically means test you on entry, and then create a package tailored to your particularly financial circumstances. So, if you fell into the poorer half of students, you'd be expected to pay a modest tuition, and then the rest of the nominal $20g or whatever would be divided up into two; part to be paid by a job on campus, and part through a bursary program. The schools are rich enough that the bursary programs are well-funded, and the on-campus job component was often enough to cover 30-40% of the costs. When I did my application -and I beleive, still to this day - the League as a rule fought to avoid scholarships based on merit or other "linked" financial awards (e.g. athletic scholarships) on the grounds that all students were in theory meritorious, or else they wouldn't have been admitted. Obviously, some students could recieve these from outside sources, however, and so cover off some of the "family/student" portion of the bill.

(I know all this because popped very high scores on my PSATs and SATs, and so had a teacher trying to get me into Yale... The form was this huge package of cute navy blue books. But I never sent it: my fatal flaw was having an upper-middle class family who didn't want to pay a cent, and I had no savings, so my means test had me paying far more than a 17-year old could muster and I wanted to avoid student loans).

That said, the two countries with the highest admission and graduation rates from universities and colleges are the U.S. and Canada. The two countries with the highest tuitions for post-secondary education in the world are also the U.S. and Canada. The beauty of both systems is that they substitute fees for rationing, and then provide a healthy whack of student aid to compensate, so the systems are much less class-biased in the end than most Europeans (and Canadian student activists) seem to beleive.

R.III