I was wonderin' about a few things

[ASL Veteran]

I've picked up quite a few tips reading this forum, but there is one thing that I've been wonderin' about lately. It's pretty much impossible to build every wonder because you have to both research the appropriate tech first and then have the excess production capacity to devote to building them. So, with that in mind you have to prioritize which wonders you need and which wonders you don't need. My questions would be these:

a) are there any synergies between certain wonders and certain civs / leaders?

b) are there any specific wonders in each era that you consider vital to go for (strategy dependent of course)

c) are there any time guidelines that you would follow when making a wonder building choice ... as in "I'm not building such and such if it takes more than 50 turns to build" or "I'm skipping that one if I don't have Marble or Stone."?

Playing as Korea lately I pretty much research Bronze Working, build one warrior to start off (for exploration) followed by one worker, then followed by Stonehenge. My worker usually has time to build one mine before Bronze is researched and then the worker is free to chop stonehenge pretty quickly while my city gets up to size. There seems to be a good synergy with Korea (or India) and stonehenge because of the starting techs and it saves me from building monuments in all my newly settled cities. I play Marathon with Huge maps and 18 civs, noble.

 

[Silence101]

I still do build a lot of wonders, though I think most veteran players would caution against it. With wonder building though, I usually don't start building a wonder unless I'm pretty confident that I'll get it done first, and I ignore wonders that don't play into my overall strategy.

a) I think the more important question would be what type of victory condition you're looking for. You'd typically want to leverage your leader traits, civics, wonders, and empire as a whole based on the type of victory you're looking for.

If you're playing as Hattie and going for a cultural victory, building the Pentagon may not be necessary - but I wouldn't miss the Sistine Chapel.

b) There are usually a couple of wonders that I always go for - the Oracle, the Great Library, The Statue of Liberty are general favorites for a lot of people. (They are helpful no matter what strat. you're playing.) Again, I think this should be based on what you're trying to achieve. I don't think a wonder should ever be build just for the sake of building it - have a plan. Look at the opportunity cost of building a wonder. Are the benefits of that wonder going to be worth it's production value - or could those hammers be better spent on military and/or infrastructure?

c) I think you can gauge this based on your tech level compared to your opponents. If there's a wonder that you can't live without, prioritise that tech and start building before other Civ's do. If there's a wonder that's been available for a long time, I wouldn't start building it because it's likely that another Civ will beat you to it. Of course, it helps to have the industrious trait, or a particular strat. resource to increase production. Try to leverage that when possible. Plan ahead as well - I sure wouldn't want to spend 50 turns on a wonder. There's things you can do to ahead of time (proper resources, developed land, etc.) to make sure wonders are build as fast as possible. I like to save a great engineer for the Statue of Liberty.

(I find on Prince difficulty that I can usually get Bronze Working and AH before researching meditation and priesthood and building the Oracle - gives me time to get other cities built and I'm usually first to build the Oracle even without the industrious trait or marble.)

I would be interested in anyone else's insight on this as well.

 

[Norbert]

Synergy between civs and wonders? Zara Yaqob+Stonehenge (+25% culture in all cities until Astronomy) and Roosevelt +Pyramids (GE points and Police State for an Industrious/Organized leader) are teh cheese.

 

[Sisiutil]

a) are there any synergies between certain wonders and certain civs / leaders?

Along the lines of what Silence101 said, the better question is what wonders have synergies with what strategies? That being said, certain leaders' characteristics do seem to dictate certain strategies, so certain wonders might fit in.

The Oracle is an attractive wonder for nearly all leaders because you can choose an early free tech that may allow you to take advantage of their abilities much sooner. If you're an Industrious leader, for example, you'll probably choose Metal Casting as the free tech for the cheap forges. However, I find the Oracle is increasingly a costly diversion as I move up the difficulty levels. On Monarch I really only bothered if I started with Mysticism and marble nearby. I'm now trying out Emperor and I think it's even harder to obtain. Liberalism, however, is still achievable.

One of my favourite strats to follow when I'm a Spiritual leader is to build both the University of Sankore and the Spiral Minaret while spamming cheap temples everywhere to take advantage of their benefits. This especially suits Ramesses, who's Industrious as well.

In Beyond the Sword, the Statue of Zeus has synergy with any warmonger leader--the Aggressives, the Charismatics, and the Imperialistics. (Huh. That sounds like a bunch of Motown groups.) More importantly, if you're going to be warmongering, you don't want to fight a civ that has built it.

b) are there any specific wonders in each era that you consider vital to go for (strategy dependent of course)

Well, the Great Library is my favourite wonder regardless of overall strategy. It allows me to generate Great Scientists to lightbulb the path to Liberalism, leaving me free to research and trade for other techs that I need. The additional research points are very helpful as well. I have won games without it, but it's a bit like winning a chess game after losing your queen--doable, but challenging.

Finally, the Pyramids have great synergy with Philosophical leaders, because they let you run the Representation civic early to leverage the specialist economy you're probably running. But dang, those things are expensive!

c) are there any time guidelines that you would follow when making a wonder building choice ... as in "I'm not building such and such if it takes more than 50 turns to build" or "I'm skipping that one if I don't have Marble or Stone."?

I'd say I'm like that about most wonders except for the Great Library and maybe the Statue of Liberty. Whipping and chopping can compensate for a lack of the needed resource. But most of the time the hammers are better spent on other things, like military units.

 

[Rameau's Nephew]

However, I find the Oracle is increasingly a costly diversion as I move up the difficulty levels. On Monarch I really only bothered if I started with Mysticism and marble nearby. I'm now trying out Emperor and I think it's even harder to obtain. Liberalism, however, is still achievable.

I agree. Unless you have some other reason to research Med/Poly and Priesthood early, you're pouring a fair amount of both beakers and hammers into gaining 1 tech, some culture, and some GP points. I'd rather have an extra settler, some more military, and earlier access to cottages & libraries in most situations.

 

[Sisiutil]

I agree. Unless you have some other reason to research Med/Poly and Priesthood early, you're pouring a fair amount of both beakers and hammers into gaining 1 tech, some culture, and some GP points. I'd rather have an extra settler, some more military, and earlier access to cottages & libraries in most situations.

Yeah, in another thread someone else was talking about moving up to the next difficulty level, and I pointed out that building the Oracle was one of those things I trimmed from my game, for the most part, when moving up from Prince to Monarch. I've won several games without it, so while it's nice to have, it's certainly not essential.

Besides, it was more powerful in vanilla, where you could still pull off a CS Slingshot. Ah, those were the days...

 

[Silence101]

I like going for the Oracle for the CoL slingshot in order to get Confusionism first. I don't usually play the Creative trait, so having a religion usually helps with culture and getting the subsequent great prophet from the Oracle helps with the cash. I expand pretty aggressively toward the beginning if there's land available, so it's nice to have that extra cash coming in from a commerce holy city as well as getting courthouses up and running as soon as possible.

Granted, this strategy may not be as effective at higher difficulty levels - but that's why I typically like the Oracle.

 

[Solomwi]

Shifting to the late game, if you plan to beef up your cities through Sid's Sushi/CivJewel/CreateCon, then the three most important wonders as far as synergy with the strategy are Broadway, Rock and Roll and Hollywood. Each one you get means significantly more resources you can trade away for excess corporation resources. Miss out on one of these and it not only means you lose the excess happiness resources you can trade, but now you have to devote some of your other excess resources to trading for that one you missed out on if you need the happiness.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

2 interesting oes are the Oracle, and the Great Library because they aren't as good to capture

The Oracle is useless to capture, only good for the builder
The Great Library gives benefits to the city it is in, so you want to plan its location.

Versailles is interesting because it is a good one to capture (it used to be good to have it on another continent)

Statue of Zeus is also not a good one to try and conquer.

 

[sydhe]

Stonehenge has great synergy for Ramesses, Hatshepsut, Zara Yacob and Sitting Bull because it gives them their unique building in every city.

Oracle works nicely for the Industrious civilizations because you can use it to get Metal Working and start building your cheap forges, paving the way to the Colossus.

Colossus is especially good for Financial civilizations.

 

[Scramble]

Protective civs playing the defend and build aspect of the game would love to get combonations such as the Great Wall, Chichen Itza (yep) and the Statue of Zeus. This makes people think twice before attacking you, and allows you to keep to yourself in relative peace.