1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[Idea] Collapsing colonial civs first lose colonies

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by nody, Apr 28, 2010.

  1. nody

    nody Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    1,168
    Location:
    Noviomagus, Batavia
    Wouldn't it be a great idea to see a collapsing colonial civ lose territories according to historical revolutions?

    For example:

    Spain would:
    - first lose cites in Louisiana and Florida
    - then the rest of North America (for example Aztecs respawn) and SA areas as Venezuela, Colombia, Chile and Argentina
    - then Peru (Incas respawn)
    - then the Caribean and Panama
    - then the Philipines
    - their African cities
    - then all cities outside of Iberia
    - then collapse completely.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Spanish_Empire_Anachronous_0.PNG

    Russia would:
    - first lose any city outside Eurasia
    - first lose cities within territories which are today independent countries, but where part of the Soviet Union, like Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Baltics and Belarus
    - then lose Siberia (maybe gradually)
    - then collapse completely.

    Portugal would:
    - first lose Brazil and any other American city
    - then lose their African cities
    - then lose all their Asian cities
    - then collapse completely.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Portuguese_Empire_20th_century.png

    Just a few examples.


    If I knew how to mod, I would make a modmod with this feature.
    If anyone is willing to do so, I would gladly help you with it. :goodjob:
     
  2. BurnEmDown

    BurnEmDown Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,718
    I also suggested this some time ago, but Rhye said he'd rather have civs collapse completely to make room for new civs and ease up on the processing and stuff. If someone was to implement this feature in his mod though I would gladly play it.
    It could create some more dynamic outcomes, for example if England controls the East coast of NA, and in the early 1700's they are collapsing, maybe the US will rise up earlier than usual?
     
  3. Ekolite

    Ekolite The Mighty Jungle

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2007
    Messages:
    5,449
    Location:
    Celtia Atrebatia
    Yeah I wish the civ spawns were more dynamic. It would be great if an unstable Roman Empire (or Carthaginian potentially) triggered the Spanish to spawn regardless of turn number for example. They could use the Roman name, Hispania, until they reach their normal spawn date and become Spain maybe? It would lead to some very interesting games I think. Same with Gallia and Britannia ofc. A collapsing Greek empire could see Babylon respawning as Selucia in a similar way.
     
  4. -Perceval-

    -Perceval- Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    355
    Nody, that's a damn good idea!
     
  5. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,589
    Location:
    The city of the original vlaai
    I will be very irritated when a colony of mine collapses for no reason, other than it's historical. You play the game as Portugal and think: "Wait a minute, in 3 turn I loose all my cities in Brasil, it has no use building more buildings or units their." I totally ruins your game. It's more useful to build cities on unhistorical spots, so you don't loose them.
    I think it will work if you are unstable, the cities in the area has a bigger chance to collapse on those certain dates. For instance: If you are playing Portugal and has some cities in Brazil, the chance that those cities will collapse will increase by 50% (or something) in 1825 when you are unstable. How more stable, the bigger the chance of collapsing is, but while being unstable, it still is bigger than stable.
     
  6. nody

    nody Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    1,168
    Location:
    Noviomagus, Batavia
    I was merely talking about dynamic collapses, not all in ones.

    But I think dynamic spawns like your example of Spain would be a b*tch to code, because you have to think about starting conditions.
    If Spain would spawn 400 years earlier than normal it can not already have feudalism and machinery for example like at the normal date.
     
  7. BurnEmDown

    BurnEmDown Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,718
    Yeah techs need to be assigned dynamically according to their "master"'s techs, but I think there's some code for this in RFC or another modmod.
    Also, merijn, of course it will be only if your civ is unstable. The idea however is that if you're unstable you don't collapse completely but first lose your most unstable holdings like overseas continents.
     
  8. nody

    nody Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    1,168
    Location:
    Noviomagus, Batavia
    My idea is:

    When you get the message: Your empire is descending into civil war!

    Then you won't lose (almost) all cities, but only lose a certain colony and still live.
    Maybe the loss of territory gives some stability back, maybe not.

    So a big empire will have a couple of civil wars before total annihilation.
     
  9. micbic

    micbic Optimistic Pessimist

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    A bit N of 2 tiles W of Athenai
    Good idea, nody, provided the cities become independents. But collapse as per history when unstable is indeed a good idea ;)
     
  10. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,073
    I though cities you lost through collapse became independent now. I've had situations where a couple of my cities deserted me IIRC when I became unstable but didn't collapse entirely.

    Love your picture, by the way! Scrat is the greatest cartoon character to come along in a long time, maybe ever!
     
  11. micbic

    micbic Optimistic Pessimist

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    A bit N of 2 tiles W of Athenai
    What I mean is making the cities independents in such situations, in semi-historical waves, instead of one after other.

    Finally another Scrat fan :D
     
  12. jmerry

    jmerry Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    As currently implemented, colonies secede from unstable civs and become independent; this is possible long before "collapsing" stability is reached. On the other hand, enough happiness can completely prevent secession; once all of your colonies have massive surplus happiness, you can't lose anything except by intentional giveaway or total collapse.
     
  13. fireclaw722

    fireclaw722 Imperial Guard

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    499
    Location:
    The Americas
    Scrat it pretty amazing!

    Back on-topic, I think that this would be best in RFC, because I've seen France(or Britian) have many colonies that could be seriously destablize them(even if they granted them Independence).
     
  14. Baldyr

    Baldyr "Hit It"

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    5,530
    Location:
    Sweden
    I've actually started on something very much like what the OP proposes. I'm not developing currently though, and I have nothing to show.

    What I was trying to do though, was to remodel the secessions feature into decolonization. I don't even remember what I actually did, but I believe there is a couple of counters keeping track of the number of Civs currently having Nationalism and Democracy. Once these Techs make an entrance into the game unstable Civs will begin to lose cities further and further away from the capitol. Or something like this.

    The main thing was that secessions are at first "A local warlord has taken the reigns of power in...", then "A local governor has declared himself the sovereign ruler of.." and finally "The colony of... has declare independence!".

    I will probably revisit my code, someday... :p
     
  15. nody

    nody Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    1,168
    Location:
    Noviomagus, Batavia
    That's even better!
     
  16. Baldyr

    Baldyr "Hit It"

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    5,530
    Location:
    Sweden
    I ever only tested any of this in autoplay, and I soon realized that the "decolonization" process became self-reinforcing. Because the unstable Civ got a stability penalty for losing the first colony, it never recovered and lost another one, and then another one. I think I toyed around with a dynamic interval between checks, but the colonial Civs started losing colonies on every such occasion. Some ended up collapsing because of the constant stability hits.

    This outcome might sound like what the OP proposed, but I think it is a bit too predictable. But I never got around to tweak it further.

    I believe that there should be an option to voluntarily release some of or all your colonies once you're on the decolonization train. This would give a stability boost so that you wouldn't automatically collapse once every-other Civ has Nationalism and Democracy. But the AIs should probably automatically give in to demands of independence once their stability is bad enough. But at least the human player would have to make a choice.

    I might also have used the Commonwealth civic in some way or another, or I planned on doing so, at least. Perhaps this would be a way to stop secessions (the independence kind) altogether? So if you wanna keep that colonial empire of yours, you have to run Commonwealth. :p (You can still lose colonies due to respawns.)
     
  17. nody

    nody Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    1,168
    Location:
    Noviomagus, Batavia
    But during the build up of your empire, use Resettlement, it's very powerful.

    Respawns make the late game more interesting, also, if you vassalize them, you can use Viceroyalty.
     

Share This Page