Idea for Religion: Holy City States
- Thread starter craig123
- Start date
StittsvilleJame
Warlord
The simpler holy city states are, the better.
I like the idea alot, but when it starts getting complicted, then you lose me.
Holy should just be another flavour of city state, much like maritime or militaristic.
The quests they give are flavoured in a religious wy, but would still boil down to "Help us fight X city state, because they're heathens." Or give us 2 spearmen, to fight some heathens." etc.
You get your religion in the game, but it won't affect gameplay, won't add any more game mechanics, rules, etc which the AI is not built for, and is easily ignored by those who hate religion, and role-played by those who like it.
Good idea, but enough of all this "Schisms" here, "Wuttenberg" there, and 45 different varieties of Christianity. K.I.S.S.
I like the idea alot, but when it starts getting complicted, then you lose me.
Holy should just be another flavour of city state, much like maritime or militaristic.
The quests they give are flavoured in a religious wy, but would still boil down to "Help us fight X city state, because they're heathens." Or give us 2 spearmen, to fight some heathens." etc.
You get your religion in the game, but it won't affect gameplay, won't add any more game mechanics, rules, etc which the AI is not built for, and is easily ignored by those who hate religion, and role-played by those who like it.
Good idea, but enough of all this "Schisms" here, "Wuttenberg" there, and 45 different varieties of Christianity. K.I.S.S.
King Jason
Fleece-bearer
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2005
- Messages
- 2,040
I agree with this, in fact, the easiest way to Make the Holy states more important is what their bonus could actually be. Military gifts units, Maritime is food, and Cultural gifts Culture.
I think a fitting Bonus for Holy States would be Happiness boost, which means investing in them would allow you to have larger than average empires. Tack on an AI modifier that helps them "understand" and desire to utilize this bonus (which already exists for CS in general), and voila, you have wars over the holy cities.
All in all it doesn't really need to be that much different than the current city-state model and looking at it this way... I'm actually a bit suprised that the civ4 devs didn't think to add "Holy" as a city state category to begin with and add the likes of Jerusalem, Mecca, Vatican, etc. So at the very least they could shrug off the removal of religion as a system into a redesign instead.
Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas & Suggestions
Darth Caesar
Might be a Wizard
We all have it in our sigs. 
Exactly. Maybe it's time for a new strategy
We could write a polite letter to Firaxis.
We all have it in our sigs.
They can't take that away from us!
Darth Caesar
Might be a Wizard
I vote for the one thats scratched out. And while we are kidnapping Sid can we do the same to Sistuil?
BluebeardRex
Chieftain
Great idea. I'm no games mechanic, but it could very easily be incorporated to some degree by having it as a specific type. Along with "Maritime", "Cultural" and "Military", we could have the "Religious". I think it would have to be a random spawning (onethat you can turn off in options, like aggressive barbarians!) - you could play a game without any HCS being generated, then the next have Vatican City, Mecca and, eh, Dawkinsville turning up on three sides of your empire. As regards attitude, alongside "Friendly", "Neutral", Hostile" and "Irrational", there could be "Religious", which would be based on regarding all other civs through their stated choice of religion, which may have to be determined on meeting the CS, or can be selected later on for pragmatic reasons, though you would have a stronger alliance if initially selecting the religion, and it is more difficult to select it / change it later in the game.
I'm also going to argue for a "Mercantile" type in another post here as well, as I think this would represent several successful city states, and also be another interesting twist in the game.
I'm also going to argue for a "Mercantile" type in another post here as well, as I think this would represent several successful city states, and also be another interesting twist in the game.
paradigmx
Say yes to Steam
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- Nov 24, 2009
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- 205
I honestly haven't read the thread, 7 pages is a lot to gloss over, so this may have been said before.
I like the idea, but I think it should be modified a little, instead of just founding a religion and spreading it, it should be a more official establishment like the Holy Roman Empire and Vatican. members join and leave based upon their nation's primary belief system and/or proximity to the city state and each other. Looking at the Holy Roman Empire directly, each nation in the HRE would vote every so often on a new Emperor and that nation would gain extra diplomatic influence within the HRE. the Papacy could have a similar system where the papal controller was determined by how widespread the religion is within the nation and how their relations are with Vatican City. Of course, these organisations would die out over time as nations turn to more conventional alliances and organisations such as Nato and the UN.
As well, if this system is added, I think religions need to rise and fall as in reality, the period of religious reform in Europe was a very important time in history and resulted in allies turning on each other and enemies defending each other.
The way I see it, this is a good idea, but if religion is going to make a come-back, I would rather then go all out and do it right than even attempt a half-baked idea that may break gameplay.
I like the idea, but I think it should be modified a little, instead of just founding a religion and spreading it, it should be a more official establishment like the Holy Roman Empire and Vatican. members join and leave based upon their nation's primary belief system and/or proximity to the city state and each other. Looking at the Holy Roman Empire directly, each nation in the HRE would vote every so often on a new Emperor and that nation would gain extra diplomatic influence within the HRE. the Papacy could have a similar system where the papal controller was determined by how widespread the religion is within the nation and how their relations are with Vatican City. Of course, these organisations would die out over time as nations turn to more conventional alliances and organisations such as Nato and the UN.
As well, if this system is added, I think religions need to rise and fall as in reality, the period of religious reform in Europe was a very important time in history and resulted in allies turning on each other and enemies defending each other.
The way I see it, this is a good idea, but if religion is going to make a come-back, I would rather then go all out and do it right than even attempt a half-baked idea that may break gameplay.
generalwar
Philosopher
It's not a bad idea, but civ woud became too complicated with all of this rises and falls of religions. That should be put in some kind of mode. Like "Rys and Falls of Religions(instead civilisations)"
Atwork
Immortal
I like this idea a lot!
Darth Caesar
Might be a Wizard
generalwar
Philosopher
I'm flattered that you like this
. Maybe, if civ 5 is really so moddable( I don't know to mod anything) I could make this, or somebody else if it isn't so moddable.
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
After a weekend away from CFC I was hoping there would be more than 1 new post
Although it's still strangely pleasing to see Holy Land signatures in other threads. The 1000 clues thread in particular is full of them
Craig123, if it makes you feel any better, the only reason I haven't commented further is because you've clearly thought it all out so very clearly & concisely. I know that if my preference for a religion model doesn't get up, then I'd still be *very* happy if this one got up instead
!The only suggestions I have, in terms of effects, might be (a) that the more influence you have, the more religious buildings you can build (Monastery, Temple & then "Church") & (b) the more influence you have, the more happiness your empire has. Not sure what impact an alliance should have, but obviously extra influence with other Civs that share that religion might be a good idea, but other effects I'm not sure!
Aussie.
Craig123, if it makes you feel any better, the only reason I haven't commented further is because you've clearly thought it all out so very clearly & concisely. I know that if my preference for a religion model doesn't get up, then I'd still be *very* happy if this one got up instead
The only suggestions I have, in terms of effects, might be (a) that the more influence you have, the more religious buildings you can build (Monastery, Temple & then "Church") & (b) the more influence you have, the more happiness your empire has. Not sure what impact an alliance should have, but obviously extra influence with other Civs that share that religion might be a good idea, but other effects I'm not sure!
Aussie.
Thanks for the kind words (even if it was a polite way of telling me to shut up
). At least I know people are still reading the thread generalwar
Philosopher
Craig123, if it makes you feel any better, the only reason I haven't commented further is because you've clearly thought it all out so very clearly & concisely. I know that if my preference for a religion model doesn't get up, then I'd still be *very* happy if this one got up instead
The only suggestions I have, in terms of effects, might be (a) that the more influence you have, the more religious buildings you can build (Monastery, Temple & then "Church") & (b) the more influence you have, the more happiness your empire has. Not sure what impact an alliance should have, but obviously extra influence with other Civs that share that religion might be a good idea, but other effects I'm not sure!
Aussie.
They could put if holy state is your ally to launch crusades after other holy cities or civs which are under other city-state's influence(religion). That wouldn't be complicated and you would enjoy in early world wars
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