Idea to improve religion in the late game

[phos_hilaron]

Ok. A couple disclaimers first. I'm a protestant pastor and I'm currently in a top evangelical seminary in the United States. You could say I know my religion.

Here's what I've been toying around with in my mind.

________

Does anyone else rarely use post gunpowder? I rarely find myself trying to convert other cities to my religion later on in the game, and that's when I realized it's because religion kind of plateaus (in my opinion) - as a game mechanic - after you enhance your religion a second time.

I have another idea to enhance the religion play.

New unit to buy with accumulated

Reformer : cost 1,000

After you purchase a reformer (only available to buy after your religion has been enhanced a second time) you can "add doctrinal tenets."

(Think Martin Luther, John Calvin of the protestant branch of Christianity, or Vatican II of Roman Catholicism, or even an additional prophet in Islam...)

Doctrinal Tenets increase the effectiveness of your religion in a number of ways. These could be simple tenets like:

Priesthood of All Believers: +1 / 10 followers of this religions
or
Universalism: +1 / for every 2 non-state religions in your city
or
Jihad: +10% Combat Effectiveness to units of other faiths
or
Missional Community: -1 for every 10 followers of this religion

You get the main idea.

The greater game mechanic at work here is that, IMO, religion kind of drops off the map in terms of a game mechanic (I know the designers want it to play less of a role; however, I feel it is almost "obsolete."

That being said, I propose a new unit, the Reformer, to continue enhancing a religion should someone accumulate and spend the required faith to augment their religious beliefs.

What are your thoughts on this?
Do you find religion helpful late game?

 

[ldvhl]

I use Faith to spread religion past gunpowder, because I like to make use of the bonus gold or happiness I receive from my founder benefit.

Also, it seems like the reformation idea is in place for BNW when you complete the Piety tree. Looks like it covers similar territory?

 

[phos_hilaron]

I use Faith to spread religion past gunpowder, because I like to make use of the bonus gold or happiness I receive from my founder benefit.

Also, it seems like the reformation idea is in place for BNW when you complete the Piety tree. Looks like it covers similar territory?

I don't feel like it does. I could be wrong though. I took this from bite's sticky in BNW sub-forum (here)

Piety Social Policy Tree

- Opener; Build Shrines and Temples twice as fast, unlocks building the Great Mosque of Djenne
- Reformation; you can chose one of the reformation beliefs for your religion
- Finisher; causes a Great Prophet to appear and Holy Sites provide +3 Culture

So it gives you an additional great prophet, and yadda yadda - to what? Spread the religion?

I still feel like your religion at 1200 AD (or whatever) is the same in 2030 AD and, for me, I think religion could be so much more in the game. The "evolution" of religion should still be unfolding IMO. Even the papacy releases new doctrinal tenets, the PCUSA works through the acceptance of the GLBT community, Islam in the 20th century has had to deal with radical terrorism - much like Christianity with the crusades and Inquisition.

I feel that Religion needs a chance to "continue" evolving in the game, while not being a sole focus. It needs to be further nuanced without being overbearing, which is why I think you should be able to purchase these reformers with or completely ignore it.

For example, I rarely purchase Inquisitors because it rarely fits into my play style. I feel this mechanic of "additional units with " would help prolong the effects and "importance" of religion, while not being the sole focus of an empire (like , , , , etc.)

Do you guys think it already has to big of a prominent place in the game? Or is it "just right"? Does it still need tweaked.

I'm specifically talking "later game."

 

[phos_hilaron]

I should add that the idea of reformers is "continual"...so you get more than one "reformation." Historically speaking of course there was ONE protestantreformation (1500's - Luther), but I'm a firm believer (and most people would agree with me) that there is continual "reformation."

 

[ldvhl]

On those points, I'll agree. A lot of the G&K systems are fairly shallow, including religion. Hopefully in future hypothetical expansions, they can use some of your ideas here.

 

[wigwam]

The greater game mechanic at work here is that, IMO, religion kind of drops off the map in terms of a game mechanic (I know the designers want it to play less of a role; however, I feel it is almost "obsolete."

It's less of an active endeavor in the late game, but it's far from obsolete. Follower beliefs like Religious Community are huge in the late game, as are all the Happiness-granting beliefs.

I actually like the way they modeled it. Missionaries and Great Prophets grow more and more expensive and play less of role, and religion goes from being an active sort of battlefield to a cultural background—think of Religious Community, for instance, as the legacy of a "Protestant work" ethic in secularized, once-Protestant countries.

 

[phos_hilaron]

I know the happiness buffs and production - like religious community are huge late game as they are exponential in nature. Its the other benefits that feel dry. I simply don't find myself saying, "Hmmm now what do I do?" I feel with an additional chance to reform and add beliefs it would further engage the religion aspect and help make it my own.

Do you feel it is adequate as is? or would you like to see it changed somehow? If so, what do you think would make religion more "engaging" late game?