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Ideas for additional Diplomatic Interactions in Civ 6

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Aussie_Lurker, Jan 19, 2019.

  1. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Warlord

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    Although I feel that Civilization VI diplomacy is some of the best I have seen in the Franchise, there are still some additional Interactions-both Major Civ & City State-that I would love to see-perhaps in a 3rd Expansion or in DLC's. It probably won't surprise you to find most of the ideas here are slightly re-worked versions of earlier game mechanics (Edited 27/01/19)

    State Religion/State Ideology: I won't lie-though I found the State/Non-State religion effects on Civ4 Diplomacy extremely OP, I really did like the concept. Done correctly, with the diplomatic relations bonuses/penalties building gradually over time-& being impacted by player actions & how the AI Civ views religion (so sharing a State Religion with a Civ will cause a gradual improvement in your diplomatic relations modifier-but that will increase faster if you start actively converting cities to that religion and/or removing non-state religions from your cities), I feel this could be a great addition back into the game.

    Ideologies was a great idea from BNW, & one I'd like to see return......with many of the same features-like Tenets & Tourism/Loyalty effects. I could also see certain Ideologies having effects on certain Policy Cards assigned to your government. Like a Militaristic Ideology might increase bonuses from cards in military slots.

    State Religions & Ideologies could also have a number of different impacts on your domestic situation as well.

    3rd Party Peace Deals: Why don't we have this already? I really want the ability to step in between two warring Civs & use my world standing to urge one side to make peace with the other. Likewise, I want the ability to urge a Civ to end a war with a City State (& maybe gain an envoy with that City State as a reward).

    Cease Fires (1st & 3rd Party): As has been suggested, this is basically a mutual Promise to cease hostilities for x turns. Re-launching hostilities before the time has expired will earn you grievances, whereas keeping the promise will earn you favour.

    3rd Party War declaration: using diplomacy to urge a Civilization to declare war on a 3rd party (as distinct from a Joint War)

    3rd Party Trade Deals: This is from Civilization 4-the ability to ask a Civ to either start or end trade with a 3rd Party Civ.

    Pacts of Secrecy: This was a great Civ5 idea that was executed horribly-because it showed up to early in both the time-line of each game, & the time-line of the development of Civ5. The way Secrecy Pacts were introduced made them meaningless, as there was no way to secretly undermine a 3rd Civilization. However, with Privateers & Spies in the game, a Pact of Secrecy makes much more sense. 3rd Party Wars & Trade Cessation (see above) could be another means of meeting the criteria of a Secrecy Pact.

    Change Religion/Ideology/Government/Policy: Basically a Diplomatic Option where you ask a Civ to change something about their Civilization-be it State Religion, State Ideology, Government.....or even Social Policy.....to one more in line with what you currently have.

    NATO/Warsaw Pact: By which I mean, multilateral Military Alliances. Even if the option only becomes available with the Cold War Civic, I think it is worth having in the game. Of course, a similar effect could be achieved with multiple City-State Protectorates....see below.

    Ask About/Trade Communications: If you are friendly with a Civilization, you can ask them their opinion on other Civs they have diplomatic relations with. Also, you can ask to be put in touch with a Civ they have contact with *or* offer to put the Civ in touch with a 3rd Party Civ you're in contact with. This was another great feature from Civ5 & Civ4, respectively.

    Land Deals: This would require the return of contested tiles (Culture) & could have two distinct facets. The first is the ability to ask for/demand all contested tiles from a neighbour-or to offer to relinquish all claim to said tiles yourself. The other facet would be the ability to purchase contested tiles-at inflated prices-via the normal tile purchase screen.....but at the potential cost of gaining Grievances.

    City-State Protectorate: As with Civ5, players should be able to pledge protection to a certain number of City-States. Unlike Civ5, I'd place some kind of limit on the total numbers of City States you can pledge to protect, but the benefit of pledging should be the gaining of a free envoy with that City State. However, if the City State is attacked, & you fail to at least denounce the Civilization for doing it, then that Envoy will be lost.


    City-State Bullying & War: Something I miss from Civ5 is the ability to bully City-States, as well as City-State quests where I was asked to bully another City-State.....even better, it would be cool if a City-State asked you to declare war on another City-State, as a quest. Which brings up the penalties that I feel should exist for mistreating City-States. Bullying a City-State should lose you an Envoy with that City-State (even if you don't have one yet) & Declaring War should lose you 3 Envoys with that City State (again, even if you don't have one yet).

    Competitive City-State Quests & City-State Quest Failure penalties: What more needs to be said? I really enjoyed these in Civilization 5. Likewise, I'd like to see certain City-State quests with a stipulation that failure will lead to Envoy loss-though I feel these types of Quests would need to be actively accepted by the player, not passively offered (so a quest like City-State bullying would be one that a player would need to actively accept).

    New Spy Actions: These are actions that would relate directly to diplomacy. The ability to convert a Spy into a Diplomat, as in BNW. Diplomats could be used, in City-States, as a weaker version of Amani, or they could be placed in the Capitals of Major Civs for similar effects as they had in Civ5. They can earn you automatic favour per turn with that Civ, would accelerate the loss of accumulated Grievances & would give you extra Alliance Points per turn (if applicable). You would need a resident embassy to do this though (speaking of which, we need an ability to remove delegations & embassies IMHO).
    Another Spy Action I'd like to see is higher levels of the "Fabricate Scandal" ability. Namely, an ability to conduct "Election Rigging" & "Coups" in City States. If successful, they would remove 1 to 2 envoys from the leading Civ, & give you an equivalent number of envoys. Though, if court, you'd earn grievances with the leading Civ in that City-State. Such missions would be increasingly harder to pull of successfully than a Fabricate Scandal mission.

    It would be nice if Spies could gather info on AI Civ intentions towards a third party (Pacts of Secrecy, upcoming informal war declarations, Ongoing Spy Activities etc) that you can pass on to the latter Civ (Intrigue). Likewise, it'd be cool if higher ranked spies could leave behind evidence implicating other Civs in your spy activities ;).
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
    Rup and SupremacyKing2 like this.
  2. monstercat

    monstercat Chieftain

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    All ideas look good, especially the spy actions, and City-State Protectorate, also thought of a few more actions too :goodjob:

    Cease Fire - Agreement between 2 civs at war to halt all combat between the two for an allotted period of time, then the 2 civs can either negotiate peace or resume war.
    Share Intrigue - Carries positive modifiers, informs the civ of any information your spies have gathered about another civ (you can choose which one)
    Ask About.. - Only available if Friends, reveals this civs relationship status with another civ.
    Poison Water Supply - Spy Action if city has a source of fresh water, chance to reduce city's population and health. Heavy diplo penalties with the world if caught.
    Steal Nuclear Device - Spy Action, heavy chance of being caught, and really heavy diplo penalty to the world, but if they succeed, you obtain the nuclear device in your nearest city
     
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  3. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Warlord

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    Share Intrigue is what I was getting at. In Civ5, spies in a Civs capital could uncover intrigues that you could share with a 3rd party.
     
  4. megabearsfan

    megabearsfan Chieftain

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    I would really like to see the ability to ask other civs to send you missionaries and other things like that. So if you're playing as Kongo or India that benefits from having other player(s) religions in your cities, you can actually ask other civs to send you those religions.

    In Polycast recording today, we also talked about the new governor for Ottomans, who can go to other player's city to provide unit production and combat boosts. It would be really nice to be able to open up the diplo screen with Sulieman and ask for him to send that governor to you.
     
  5. HorseshoeHermit

    HorseshoeHermit 20% accurate as usual, Morty

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    Cease fire should not have any binding effects... unless it interacts with Diplomatic Favor.

    To me, Cease fire is like one of those "promises" you trigger with the AI, except it's something a player can actually initiate. By offering a cease fire, you are suggesting you stop shooting at each other, and perhaps more directly, retire from pissing each other off*. It is an informal arrangement, and the AI player will consider the request based on its war goals (did it really want to win anything else in this fight? could it?), but also the global opinion of you. If you have some trace of trustworthiness, or if you have a contrite posture (this one probably too complex to implement AI recognition), the AI can agree to cease fire, and then what will happen is either the cooling temperature of the war will become peace, or some action or blunder by either side will drive the other to capture an advantage.

    And for those to whom single player civ is a joke, Cease fire can be something exchanged between players but which the Visibility system can respond to. I can communicate with a rival player, but I can put the declaration into terms that can be published in a clear unambiguous fashion to other players. Or, as I'm getting to, can interact with game systems if appropriate.

    While I think that Cease fires giving PLUS Diplomatic favor would be a huge design mistake, a Cease fire giving some kind of penalty if violated, to either Favor, or maybe War Weariness - and era-scaled the same way that Surprise War opinion is - COULD, COULD be worth doing.

    *a player can tell if you are muscling for territory under the cease fire not in the spirit it is intended, for example.

    --
    The thing missing from Pledge to Protect, for me, was being informed when a player bullies the City-State I'm protecting! In Civ5 you actually NEVER find out about this, unless the City-State runs one of the quests that responds to it.
    That's way more important than getting a bonus from making the Pledge.

    --
    Three-way negotiation is lacking, but we can understand how defining all the logic for it could be -really- hard. How to make two AI players resolve their priorities in a way that doesn't get caught in a loop, for instance? And if you're playing in a Hotseat, how long would it take to clear a three-party deal? No answer at first blush.
    The missing "request for peace" diplo bargain is truly felt, though. Yeah. Why can't I even try to do what I could do in Civ5?
     
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  6. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Warlord

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    Well yes, a cease fire is a less binding form of peace treaty. Offering to cease hostilities for X turns, with each side able to break the truce, but at a cost of gaining grievances, but gaining favour if you stick to the deal.

    Pretty sure we had 3rd party cease fires/peace deals in Civ4 though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
  7. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Warlord

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    Well, according to this page:

    https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Civilization_IV/Diplomacy

    I was correct. You could negotiate a 3rd party peace (& war), & could try to get a Civ to stop trading with a 3rd party Civ in Civ4 too-all of which I feel Civ6 needs. In a similar vein, it would be nice if we could have the diplomatic option to urge Civs to change their governments (&, if we ever get them back, their ideology).

    One thing I might also like back is the Civ4 idea of cultural appropriation of pre-owned tiles (maybe a Cultural Alliance could prevent this) & the idea of contested borders. Having contested borders would have a negative impact on your relations with that other Civ, but it could also open up a new Diplomacy Option-the ability to either ask for-or relinquish-all contested border tiles along your shared border. How much this might cost would probably depend on how many tiles are contested, & who currently is in the dominant position in terms of culture.

    Another possibility, that could exist alongside that diplomacy option is the ability to *purchase* contested tiles, like you can un-owned tiles, but at highly inflated prices. There might be a minimum amount of cultural control you require before you have the purchase option (say, around 33%). Also, doing this would earn a small amount of grievance with your neighbour, though how much would depend on the level of control you had over the tile to begin with (more than 75% would earn no grievance at all).

    This would help to make the borders much more dynamic, IMHO.
     
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  8. Rhyno100

    Rhyno100 Chieftain

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    I agree the game is crying out for more Diplomatic Options! I like many of your suggestions!

    Diplomatic relations based on a point system of negative and positive modifiers worked well with Civ IV. I liked that system, because you pretty much knew where you stand with the AI and WHY.
    I think every interaction should have a bearing on relationships, but mostly small modifiers that build over time, or fade over time, besides big changes due to War or Denouncing. I also like the idea that i read on this forum somewhere, about Civs having an 'involvement' factor with each other. So basically, you are not Denounced by a Civ you have just met, or one you have virtually no involvement with - at least not under most circumstances.

    New Diplomacy Ideas: (Some of these are in complete agreement with the OP suggestions)
    1. State Religions - Totally agree, this concept needs to be brought back! This could unlock a religion specific bonus, and improve relations between Civ sharing the same Religion.
    2. Adopt Government or Policy - Agree again, this has been in previous Civs over the years, and needs to be brought back to form an additional basis for relationships. As with State Religion, Should be able to be purchased - and not just a yes or no response - and be set for a minimum period of turns, perhaps)
    2. Espionage Pact - This would tie in well with my suggestions for Revamped Espionage, posted on another thread, but it is basically a secret agreement between two Civs to focus Espionage spending and activity on a 3rd Party. If Spies are caught by the 3rd Party, the Pact may be revealed under interrogation.
    3. 3rd Party War - I feel this should be more than a Yes or No answer!
    Options: "Yes" (Declare war on 3rd Party)
    "Yes, in 10 turns" (Ok i'm in, but lets revisit this later, and if i change my mind, it will hurt our relationship, From Civ V, i think)
    "I will Support your effort" - (This is done indirectly, either by Ceasing Trade or Denouncing the 3rd Party, Gifting gold or units to the Civ asking, or Signing an Espionage Pact with them. They are not quite as happy with your efforts, but still pleased.)
    "No" (Has a slight negative effect, perhaps with an option for the original war suggester to counter with some sort of a 'Plead', that if also declined has a much larger negative effect on relations, but if the Plead is accepted, then has only a small positive bonus to relations - you made them GROVEL after all - and receiving only a small bonus would reward loyal friends who come to another's aid right away, rather than an initial decline.)
    4. Support my War - Jump straight to the options listed above (Perhaps they are too far away to send troops, or too small and me be destroyed if they join a war. Any secret support could be discovered by Spies or Diplomats from the 3rd Party, and could lead to the risk of war for the suggested Supporter.
    5. Vassalage - A foe on the ropes can offer Vassalage as an option to total destruction. The Lord Civ would acquire a bonus boost to Gold/ Science/ Culture/ Faith = to a certain % of the Vassals output.
    Vassals would have to be kept Loyal by factors such as - Amenities or happiness of your own people, Trade routes between the two, Shared Religion (especially a shared State Religion), Shared Government type or Policies, International Opinion of the Lord / Previous Trustworthiness, and most importantly the difference between Military strength.
    When talking with Vassal, there would need to be some indicator as to their level of Loyalty. I read a good range on another Thread, but i cant find it now...
    Loyal, Trustworthy, Neutral, Rebellious, Hostile.
    Something like that was mentioned. Basically, they would follow you to war, unless they were Rebellions or Hostile, and if Hostile for a certain number of turns, would declare a war of independence. Independence could also be granted peacefully by the Lord, for a permanent relationship points boost. Independence could also be granted by the World Congress, but without a positive boost to relations.
     
  9. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Chieftain

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    I would like more diplomatic options out of Great works and relics, and they could tie nicely with the new diplomatic systems in GS. Say, are you ever annoyed at every civ wanting you to trade your works of art and relics? This could be aliviated if you could set pilgrimages to your holy site via city proyect, and have pilgrimages be more effective the more relics you have and the more civs have a pilgrimage agreement with you (could be setup similar to open borders). It would certainly make conquering a religious rival and claiming relics that more fun.

    A similar idea could be applied to great works of art, in that you could lend a specific work of art to go touring the world, generating shared tourism for the recieving civ and diplomatic points for the giver.
     

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