Ideas for VP changes & discussion

[pineappledan]

Hello all,

Love the mod, breathes new life yadda-yadda-yadda. I've got some ideas for stuff, and I think some of them are pretty good.

Ideas that don't require new code in Green.
Ideas that require new code in Red. Shut up, I can dream.

Buildings:
Agribusiness - Food for every farm

Spoiler :

Replace the +5 food and +15% modifier with +1 or 2 food for every farm within 3 tiles of the city, regardless of whether they are worked or not.

This would reflect the automation and collectivization of farms into... agribusinesses, so you have fewer people ‘working the land’. The number of farms hasn’t gone down with the rise of urbanization; the number of FARMERS, however, has plummeted

Mechanically, you would see a continued, even accelerated clearing of land around cities, despite most of your population working specialist slots. This would better reflect land use trends in the 19th/20th century.

New code required: essentially a version of the Building_YieldPerXTerrainTimes100 table, but for improvements instead of terrain. A terrain version already exists for buildings (Machu Pichu yields for mountains in 3 tiles)

Wonders:
Oracle - Increase Instant yields

Spoiler :

On construction, Oracle gives instant yield of 900 culture, and 900 GAP. Culture is on Empire, and does not contribute to border growth.

This one is pretty straight forward. Right now the Oracle gives the same instant yields on construction as a circus. Policies at late Classical are around 1500-2000 culture, and old oracle didn't contribute to future policy costs. New oracle should have the value of at least 3 circuses or it's simply not worth the hammers.

Angkor Wat - Free Mandir

Spoiler :

Angkor Wat border growth rate reduced to 15%.
Free Mandir in city (+10%, +2, cannot assassinate/disrupt production in city).

Angkor Wat is usually a pretty low tier wonder, unless you are Russia, but the AI loves it. Angkor Wat currently has no immediate effect
No wonder gives Mandirs
Angkor Wat is the largest mandir in the world, (It's also the single largest religious complex of any sort in the world).

It's a match made in heaven

Hagia Sophia - Free Church instead of Temple

Spoiler :

Reduce Yields to +4/+4 (down from +5/+5)
Replace free Temple with free Church (+3 Faith, +50 religious pressure, 3 charges on missionaries)

The Hagia Sophia was a church. I admit I was a bit taken aback when I saw that Sankore got a mosque, but Hagia Sophia wasn't given the dignity of affirming what kind of religion it came from. This frees up temples, which are available to everyone, and fits more with a theme I would like to pursue of all the religious wonders that hit around this time giving free religious tenant buildings.

Borobudur - Free Stupa instead of Monastery

Spoiler :

Replace the free Monastery with free Stupa (+3, +2, +4 at later tech)

No wonder gives Stupas
Borobudur is the largest and most complex stupa in the world. In fact, it is a single large stupa, with of 72 little stupas on top of it.
I also prefer giving a tenant-specific building over one unlocked by a policy.

Big Ben/Palace of Westminster - Free Great Merchant

Spoiler :

Increase base yields to +5/+3 (up from +1)
+1 Great Merchant (or Great Diplomat) Points (no GPP currently given)
Reduce number of delegates per 8 city states to +1 or +2 (down from +3)
Gives a free Great Merchant

Spoiler :

Big Ben currently has no Immediate Effect
There isn't a single wonder or policy which gives a free great merchant in the game Right now, and merchant is the only GP with that honour.

If someone completed statecraft and got this wonder on a standard map with the default number of delegates, then they have 8+ votes on you without having done any work (6+2 votes). For context, this wonder is currently 3x as strong as a comparable statecraft policy, and gives 1.5x as many votes as 'Treaty Organization', a level 3 Freedom tenet.

For anyone who didn't take Statecraft, this wonder is a formal dis-invitation to partake in the world congress. It gives so many votes on its own, why bother even trying to compete? It's not that it's necessarily overpowered, it just rigs an entire game mechanic for 1 player to the detriment of anyone else, and that kills engagement.

Great Lighthouse - Replace +1 Movement

Spoiler :

Remove +1 move from GL unit promotion (+1 vision stays)
Add +2 for city connections
Or -34% Gold penalty for trade route distance. (Requires new code)

Currently in the game:
1 UA which gives +1 move to naval units (England)
2 Wonders which gives +1 move to naval units (Great Lighthouse, Grande Canal)
1 Unique Wonder which gives +1 move to naval units (Arsenale di Venezia)
1 Policy which gives +1 move to naval units (Imperialism opener)

This results in some serious cheese, and it's all just a bit dull. I'm not in love with my 'Culture on city connections' fix, but the +1 move has got to go.

Brandenburg Gate - Replace +15XP with +25% XP on Purchased Units

Spoiler :

Remove +15XP on units in city
Replace with +25% XP on purchased units on Empire (purchased units get 75% of normal XP instead of 50%)

The newest patch introduced 1/2 XP for purchased units. Brandenburg Gate is well-positioned as a wonder to mitigate this new mechanic, since it comes at the same tech as military academy.
The change would make the city with Brandenburg gate less of a "bottleneck" for military unit production, especially now that units cannot simply be purchased to take full advantage of the +15XP.
Personally, I've always found this wonder frustrating, because it stifles my willingness to build units more flexibly, and it's maddening to get it positioned in a city that can take proper use of it. (high production requirement, coastal so boats can get the XP too)
My frustrations with this building are only enhanced now that VP requires producing the unit for full XP.

Policies/Ideologies
Free Trade replacement - Marketplace of Ideas

Spoiler :

Current Free Trade Policy: +5 from International Trade Routes. Poverty Threshold reduced by 20% in all Cities.
Marketplace of Ideas Policy: +3 in City for every sent out via trade routes. Poverty Threshold reduced by 20% in all Cities.

The new policy would give players a reason to trade with civs that are trailing in tech, and mitigate the effects of influence. It also gives industry a unique mechanic, which I feel the policy tree is sorely lacking.

Inspired by this Phoenician mod by Sukritact. This would require a bit of .lua, which could be copied from the mod I linked, with permission.

Imperialism Finisher - Replace "Range" on air units with new promotion: "Fokker Scourge"

Spoiler :

Remove +2 range on air units as free promotion for Imperialism Finisher
New promotion for all air units: "Fokker Scourge" - +20% on attack

Alternative name for promotion: "Synchronization Gear"
Naval units get a unique promotion, Ironsides, which gives +20% on defense. Air units currently get a vanilla promotion they could get by levelling. This gives more symmetry to the policy tree's promotions and I feel it is more engaging.

Resettlement Change - Production on Settle, Bonus Population on Razing

Spoiler :

Current Resettlement Policy: New Cities have +3 population. All cities gain +2 Citizens immediately. No Partisans from razing enemy Cities.
New Resettlement Policy: New Cities have +3 population and start with 150 Production, scaling with Era. when an enemy city is destroyed by razing, receive +1 population in all Non-Occupied Cities. No Partisans from razing enemy Cities.

In its current form, I cannot imagine anyone taking this policy. It is extremely easy to get 7 population quickly at this late stage of the game, but it is very rare that anyone would be settling this late anyways. The main reason someone would pick this tenet is for the elimination of partisans during conquest.
Tying the population increase to razing gives more incentive to raze, and fits the "resettlement" idea of the tenet better. You raze a city to the ground and force its inhabitants to integrate into your own cities.

Civilizations
Carthage - Increase Bonus Trade Routes from Cothon to +3, and +25% bonus to trade unit production
Venice - Give FreeLuxuries to Rialto/Murano/Arsenale

Spoiler :

The most recent patch gave +1 trade routes to East India Companies, but had no accompanying increase in TRs to Carthage. The +2 TR cap on the Great Cothon was the main selling point of the wonder, and it is lackluster if it only provides 1 more TR than base civs.
Rialto/Murano/Arsenale are also getting left behind. They already do not benefit from the increased number of TRs, but if they got that bonus then they would actually get +2 TRs (due to Venice's UA).

A bonus to Trade unit production for carthage would be very thematic, and fitting for their NW, which is essentially an early drydock/harbor

New Iroquois UA: Mourning War

Spoiler :

Current Iroquois UA: The Great Warpath -
Units move through Forest and Jungle in as if it is Road, and can be used to establish City Connections.
Land military units start with the Woodsman promotion.
Units receive +20% Combat Strength when within 3 tiles of a Natural Wonder

New Iroquois UA: Mourning War -
Units move through Forest and Jungle in as if it is Road, and can be used to establish City Connections.
Land military units start with the Woodsman promotion.
+10% Combat Strength for 10 turns whenever an adjacent friendly unit dies, and +20% Combat Strength for 10 turns when a non-occupied city is captured by an enemy (up to a max of 30%).

I didn't mind the natural wonders ability, but it seemed situational and gimmicky. The Iroquois are at their best in their own territory, and this mourning war ability would neutralize the "home field advantage" benefits that an enemy civ might acquire by capturing one of your cities (Himeji, Guerilla warfare, Shoshone, etc.).

The price is too high and the benefit too small to intentionally waste units for a temporary boost, and players certainly won't give up cities for 10 turns of increased CS. Nonetheless, it would give the Iroquois a more consistent combat advantage, which I also feel touches on an interesting aspect of Iroquois culture.

W.R.T. the name change, the great warpaths are more or less general to northeast United States, and were employed by many non-Iroquois tribes. Mourning wars are more specific to Iroquois culture

The original idea was inspired by the Gaul mod by Janboruta and Sukritact.

Ottoman UA - Give Tanzimat happiness mechanic

Spoiler :

UA: Tanzimat

• Completing a Trade Route grants +150 Science, Production and Food to the origin City if international, or Culture and and Gold if internal. Bonuses scale with era
• -5% on all Needs Modifiers (boredom/illiteracy/poverty/crime/religious unrest) to the target city of an internal trade route.
• War Weariness is reduced by 5% for every active internal trade route.

I think Tanzimat should affect happiness in some way, since Tanzimat was a campaign to foster integration and equality in the empire (as a means of stamping out nationalism among the empire's disparate peoples).Yields for ottoman UA as described in (1) are identical to the current iteration of Tanzimat. The UA rewards external trade routes with more kinds of yields, and rewards internal routes with happiness. You would then switch between internal/external depending on how happy your empire is.

The numbers on the trade route completion bonus could be reduced to 100 of each to compensate perhaps. The 12-15 patch added complexity and danger of external trade routes, combined with the lower yields, encouraging risky distant routes means that this UA might have been hit hard enough already that adding to the existing bonus might be fine

 

[Deadstarre]

Big Ben/Palace of Westminster- that does currently look like overkill with the votes...

Great Lighthouse- the naval bonuses never felt right to me, its an early game and very risky wonder to attempt, and then having its main benefit barely matter at all until way down the line when i have a legit navy is just weird. sight is fine, movement should go and give it something else I definitely agree

Imperialism Finisher - Replace "Range" on air units with new promotion: "Fokker Scourge"- you make a good point, free range just spares me grabbing it anyway - essentially just a little extra XP. but if the new promotion is called "Fokker Scourge" it should also allow you to milk a cats nipples.

Spoiler :

Resettlement Change- the "new cities" part of existing tenet is completely irrelevant, the existing cities gaining 2pop isnt though - ive taken it plenty of times.

 

[Infixo]

Love the mod, breathes new life yadda-yadda-yadda. I've got some ideas for stuff, and I think some of them are pretty good.

Agribusiness - it's beed changed in 1-6. Offtopic. Machu Picchu uses this mechanism because mountains as a general rule were not supposed be workable. So, if you want to give yields to them, you need to give in then in the city actually. There is no need for yields associated with improvement, terrain, feature, etc. appearing in the city if they can be easily worked in a normal way.
Oracle - yup, now it su.ks.
Angkor Wat - AI values highly "expansion" features, same as God of Expanse belief.
Hagia Sophia / Borobudur - I agree, a religious building would be more fitting than plain Temple.
Big Ben - yup, votes are OP; GM - idk, it's no longer a Commerce wonder, now there's no reason to associate it with Gold; what about: +1 vote per 8 CS and give it +1 influence with TR to CS, so you have to actually work for other votes; also reduce tenet from freedom +4 influence to +3; that would allow for more fights around diplo victory
Great Lighthouse - wow, quite a lot of those +1; 2 are uniques, so you actually still can get +3 if playing smart... probably 1 should go
Free Trade - feels like a change for a change
Imperialism finsher - it would make sense to have both opener and finisher give similar effects, either movement/range or attack/defense, so basically it is ok now; GL then could lose +1 move
Resettlements - are you sure that you start cities with +4 and not +7? doesn't it work with pioneers and colonists? also, giving pop for razing could multiply pop (raze 10 pop, get 20 pop);
Carthage - no opinion on that
Venice - why resources? I don't think V. can have any happiness problems, so just for trading them?
Mourning War - bonuses for bad events (unit killed) could work for human player; also - many complex mechanincs that are similar to "fight better in own territory"; but I agree that this Natural Wonder thing is useless most of the time simply due to rarity of NWs; probably some other ability, but less sophisticated than Mourning War, is a good idea
Tanzimat - I find this UA strong; also - I don't thnk that common folks in Turkey were particularly happy about those changes; there were enforced to them, that never makes people happy; ofc, until they finally see results after several years

 

[RAuer2]

I do not share the Great Lighthouse dislike. To me, +1 to naval movement is a precious bonus in all eras and it helps me constantly in games where I build the GL.

 

[pineappledan]

Big Ben - yup, votes are OP; GM - idk, it's no longer a Commerce wonder, now there's no reason to associate it with Gold; what about: +1 vote per 8 CS and give it +1 influence with TR to CS, so you have to actually work for other votes; also reduce tenet from freedom +4 influence to +3; that would allow for more fights around diplo victory

By that justification, you must be absolutely livid that broadway is an industry finisher. Big Ben has 1 effect that helps with Diplo. Building a town or doing a trade mission isn't going to hurt a diplo-focused win. By the same token, habing a 3-slot GWMusic wonder and a free musician doesn't hurt your wide play with industry, and it has one part (culture on buildings) which synergizes very well.

Perhaps I could change the +1 GPP to +1 Great Diplomat instead though?

Perhaps my bigger point was that I can't think of a more fitting wonder to give a Great Merchant to, and its current effect is pretty game-breaking anyways

Agribusiness - it's beed changed in 1-6. Offtopic. Machu Picchu uses this mechanism because mountains as a general rule were not supposed be workable. So, if you want to give yields to them, you need to give in then in the city actually. There is no need for yields associated with improvement, terrain, feature, etc. appearing in the city if they can be easily worked in a normal way.

Did you read my justification? The reason would be you would be in a situation where you would want all unused land near your city covered with farms, even if you were unable/uninterested in working them. It would fundamentally change land-use post industrial, since a farm can significantly offset a specialist, even if there is no one working the farm tile.

Venice - why resources? I don't think V. can have any happiness problems, so just for trading them?

Venice's 3 EIC replacements are all very powerful, but it feels weird that none of them get any of the bonuses of a normal EIC (gold, +gold on TRs, extra lux, and now +1 TR). Perhaps they could all get +4/2 incoming/outgoing gold or something instead

Tanzimat - I find this UA strong; also - I don't thnk that common folks in Turkey were particularly happy about those changes; there were enforced to them, that never makes people happy; ofc, until they finally see results after several years

It gave citizenship and rights to non-muslim and non-turkish people. Naturally that pissed the ethnic Turks off, because it felt like they were less special now. More importantly, it molified groups like the Armenians (that is until their fair treatment was used as justification to kill them all).

In that respect, you could see "happiness" as more "willingness to rebel and spawn barbarians outside the city". They had the ethnic Turks on lock, so they were more worried about Croats, Serbs and Arabs breaking away and forming their own countries, like what happened with Greece.

 

[MorphBer]

I do not share the Great Lighthouse dislike. To me, +1 to naval movement is a precious bonus in all eras and it helps me constantly in games where I build the GL.

I don't like it either, navy got allready hit hard with change to range 1 everywhere, moving around with 3 movement range ships is really dull. Also the +2 on city connections is kind of whatever... boring

Agribusiness, why should it give +2 on unworked farms? Should jsut be +2 farms I think.

I like the free religious buildings on Ankor Wat, Hagia Sophia and Borobodour.
currently I find all of them pretty weak especially Borobodou, I think I never build this Wonder, seems terribly weak.

Agree on the buff for great cohon, it shouldn't get worse because EITC was buffed.
Don't know about the venice one, sounds boring to me. 2 TR would be op?

 

[pineappledan]

I do not share the Great Lighthouse dislike. To me, +1 to naval movement is a precious bonus in all eras and it helps me constantly in games where I build the GL.

I don't like it either, navy got allready hit hard with change to range 1 everywhere, moving around with 3 movement range ships is really dull. Also the +2 on city connections is kind of whatever... boring

I like the GL bonus too, but I think +movement on navy is oversaturated. If you love it, let it go

Navy got hit because of all the damn cheese surrounding naval tactics. One of the main concerns is that ships can zip into AI's vision, attack, and then zip back out again. Fewer cheesy +movement wonders might help that.

If you have a better idea for a GL bonus I'm all ears. It was more important to me that the +move go, I care a lot less about what replaces it. The +yields on city connection made sense to me though, because it serves as a buff to lighthouses on empire. Alternatively it could give +10% gold to trade routes, like Machu Picchu.

Agribusiness, why should it give +2 on unworked farms? Should jsut be +2 farms I think.

That's what the agribusiness is going to be changed to in the next patch (+1 actually), so you must be tickled pink.

I like the free religious buildings on Ankor Wat, Hagia Sophia and Borobodour.
currently I find all of them pretty weak especially Borobodou, I think I never build this Wonder, seems terribly weak.

If you look at the raw numbers, I would consider a free stupa a slight nerf compared to monastery, even with the removal of the science slot

Resettlement Change- the "new cities" part of existing tenet is completely irrelevant, the existing cities gaining 2pop isnt though - ive taken it plenty of times.

Indeed, it is useful. Wouldn't it be more fun if the +pop was a carrot though? This policy currently makes razing easier, but gives no reason for doing so, especially in light of the free courthouses you get next level.

 

[Infixo]

By that justification, you must be absolutely livid that broadway is an industry finisher.
Venice's 3 EIC replacements are all very powerful, but it feels weird that none of them get any of the bonuses of a normal EIC
.

Broadway - oh, yes, I am. The first time I played VP and saw that, I was like WTH?
Venice - ok, that make sense then. Also EIC with TR requires some buff to Venice’s buildings.

 

[Rekk]

You've explained yourself quite well. I see only upside in these suggestions, but I will admit that I'm still a novice in VP.

 

[MorphBer]

If you have a better idea for a GL bonus I'm all ears. It was more important to me that the +move go, I care a lot less about what replaces it. The +yields on city connection made sense to me though, because it serves as a buff to lighthouses on empire. Alternatively it could give +10% gold to trade routes, like Machu Picchu.
That's what the agribusiness is going to be changed to in the next patch (+1 actually), so you must be tickled pink.

If you look at the raw numbers, I would consider a free stupa a slight nerf compared to monastery, even with the removal of the science slot
Indeed, it is useful. Wouldn't it be more fun if the +pop was a carrot though? This policy currently makes razing easier, but gives no reason for doing so, especially in light of the free courthouses you get next level.

Maybe GL could give additional Bonuses to coast and ocean tile of the cities it is built in, like an old version of colossus did. Alternativly maybe another free non-movement promotion on naval units?

Ok Stupa might be worse, but I would argue that if you want these missionarys you probably picked fealty and can build monestarys anyway.

 

[pandasnail]

Venice UB is a National Monument, not an East India.

 

[pandasnail]

As to the rest

Yes, Oracle looks not so strong currently.

Agribusiness makes sense in theory, but if Gazebo is going to dip into new code, this doesn't seem worthwhile enough imo. Just adding food is good enough.

All the religious buildings makes sense, sure. Particulary Hagia Sophia I guess, temple being so much earlier.

Forbidden Palace was OP in its way. When the votes got moved to Big Ben, I think it stopped being OP, because by then there are enough other votes. I like there being one AI who is a guaranteed threat in the WC. (I rarely go Statecraft myself)

Don't see the need for the Free Trade change, especially since its in red.

Certainly never raze cities in the Modern Era, but the population on resettlement is fine I think.

Both Ottomans and Carthage were contenders for best human hands nation in the game before all the recent changes. Not sure there's evidence yet they need buffs.

Iroquois change would be fun to face I guess, but I never ever would choose to play as them. Rewards for losing cities are weird.

 

[Gazebo]

I like the Wonder free building changes - reminded me that I'm giving the Oracle a free Temple anyways in the next beta.

Everything else is of debatable balance/utility. Also, no new code.

G

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Agribuisness: Plant 10 farms and you get 20 food by one building. The food from buildings and food modifier are already too high and need some nerf, reducing the building cost down to 1 horse and give it only +2 food +5% food would fit it more.
Oracle: is kinda weak now. I would like to see one more diplomacy wonder, while all the other wonders/policies concentrate on votes, this could give +25% yields from CS. (The oracle was visited by lot of kings/princes/warlords...)
Ankor wat: I like to build it, the costs for new tiles are getting really high, if you didnt have picked tradition. This fix it a bit. But an additional free mandir would be nice.
Hagia Sophia: Change from temple to church sounds good, but this change is maybe a bit too strong, leading to the result, you buy every missionary in the holy city now with 3 charges.
Borobodur: Free Stupa instead of free monastery sounds good.
Palace of Westminster: Its fine as it is now.
Great Lighthouse: Its fine as it is now.

Free trade: The gold doesnt matter that much. Maybe reduce the distance effect for traderoutes and stay with the poverty treshold.
Imperialismn finisher: I think, this is fine, the starter and scaler needs a change. Not the finisher

Ottoman UA: There should be a better balance between international and internal traderoutes. International gives 450, internal only 300 with valuable culture, but comparible low gold. 120 for every international and 180 for every internal fits better.
I already suggested some change to 1 food, 1 hammer, 1 culture for every internal traderoute, 2 science, 2 gold for every international traderoute. Multiplied with all active trade units and faith sites, maxed at 20. Playing with the religious aspect of the ottoman empire.

 

[pineappledan]

Oh snap! I totally forgot about distance modifiers on trade route! What if THAT was the change to great lighthouse? Like, -25% to -50% Gold penalty on TR distance?

It’s a bit bewildering to have added a new mechanic (TR distance) while the “new code freeze” is in effect. There are no policies or wonders which interact with that mechanic. Free trade or a GL change seem like prime candidates

Another one I was considering is that Brandenburg Gate, instead of +15XP in city, could mitigate the XP penalty on purchase. Maybe purchased units could get 75% XP if purchased rather than 50% if Brandenburg is built on empire. It’s a late wonder, so you really start to feel that XP loss.

We’ve got an embargo on new code, but new mechanics keep coming out and no policies or wonders modify them.

I just think it’s a shame that tanzimat doesn’t do anything to aid the “cohesiveness” of the empire. I don’t think that the UA, as it is, is a fair or accurate representation of what tanzimat was, or it’s aims. I think if all yields were reduced to 125, that would be enough. Alternatively, they could be lowered to 100, and faith could be added to external TR yields.

Regarding agribusiness, it gives +5 food, +10% currently, right? If you add up all food buildings(granary, herbalist, well (assume 20 pop), aqueduct, grocer, windmill, agribusiness and hospital), you get 28 food on buildings alone, no terrain, policy, or events modifiers. That’s +3 food on agribusiness’s % modifier alone. I think the +1 food to farms is going to have to be increased to +2 food on farms anyways, because tit seems like a pretty big nerf right now

 

[Gazebo]

Oh snap! I totally forgot about distance modifiers on trade route! What if THAT was the change to great lighthouse? Like, -25% to -50% Gold penalty on TR distance?

It’s a bit bewildering to have added a new mechanic (TR distance) while the “new code freeze” is in effect. There are no policies or wonders which interact with that mechanic. Free trade or a GL change seem like prime candidates

Another one I was considering is that Brandenburg Gate, instead of +15XP in city, could mitigate the XP penalty on purchase. Maybe purchased units could get 75% XP if purchased rather than 50% if Brandenburg is built on empire. It’s a late wonder, so you really start to feel that XP loss.

We’ve got an embargo on new code, but new mechanics keep coming out and no policies or wonders modify them.

I just think it’s a shame that tanzimat doesn’t do anything to aid the “cohesiveness” of the empire. I don’t think that the UA, as it is, is a fair or accurate representation of what tanzimat was, or it’s aims. I think if all yields were reduced to 125, that would be enough. Alternatively, they could be lowered to 100, and faith could be added to external TR yields.

Regarding agribusiness, it gives +5 food, +10% currently, right? If you add up all food buildings(granary, herbalist, well (assume 20 pop), aqueduct, grocer, windmill, agribusiness and hospital), you get 28 food on buildings alone, no terrain, policy, or events modifiers. That’s +3 food on agribusiness’s % modifier alone. I think the +1 food to farms is going to have to be increased to +2 food on farms anyways, because tit seems like a pretty big nerf right now

Code for sake of code = new code. Code that solves a balance issue is not entirely new.

G

 

[Stalker0]

Agribusiness, just throwing this out there. What if it immediately gave you 2 population? That's the kind of late game boost that can be worthwhile.

 

[MorphBer]

Agribusiness, just throwing this out there. What if it immediately gave you 2 population? That's the kind of late game boost that can be worthwhile.

Must be unsellable then

 

[pineappledan]

Code for sake of code = new code. Code that solves a balance issue is not entirely new.

a lot of shakeups in these last 2 patches. I wouldn’t see it as code for the sake of code, it’s code for the sake of fully integrating the new ideas into the wider game. If the new mechanics don’t have ways to be mitigated/adjusted/toyed with, then they will feel tacked-on.

Maybe these mechanics will be abandoned at some point, but the partial integration of TR distance by making a UA ignore it seems like that, at least, is here to stay.

As for GLighthouse, seems to me like the +movement/vision is more inertia than an actual design decision. Removing science from universities next patch would sounds to me like there are no sacred cows, so I see no reason to have 4 different Policies/UAs/wonders that do the same thing.

 

[Gazebo]

a lot of shakeups in these last 2 patches. I wouldn’t see it as code for the sake of code, it’s code for the sake of fully integrating the new ideas into the wider game. If the new mechanics don’t have ways to be mitigated/adjusted/toyed with, then they will feel tacked-on.

Maybe these mechanics will be abandoned at some point, but the partial integration of TR distance by making a UA ignore it seems like that, at least, is here to stay.

As for GLighthouse, seems to me like the +movement/vision is more inertia than an actual design decision. Removing science from universities next patch would sounds to me like there are no sacred cows, so I see no reason to have 4 different Policies/UAs/wonders that do the same thing.

I get it - you like your ideas, and that's fine. But designing a UA is much different than teaching an AI when to (or not to) focus on a policy/building/belief. It's a lot of work and balancing beyond the fact that the new building/policy/belief has foundational code demands as well. So, again, I've always been very open to community feedback, but I have my limits.

G