Ideas on improving UHVs

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Aug 10, 2012
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As a disclaimer, there are some UHVs that I love to play, such as Mughals, Polynesia, Japan, Germany, and Korea.


However, do you think some UHVs could be better? Here are my ideas:

America:
Spoiler :
1. Allow no European colonies in North and Central America and the Caribbean and control or vassalize Mexico and Canada in 1900. (NOTE: I suspect a reason Canada was added was to make America's victory easier, and while adding "control or vassalize Canada" might defeat that purpose, maybe the date could be pushed back to 1930 AD).
2. Build the Statue of Liberty, the Empire State Building, the Pentagon, Hollywood, Mt. Rushmore and the United Nations by 1950 AD.
3. Secure 10 Oil resources and earn two Great Spies by 2000 AD.


Colombia:
Spoiler :
2. Allow no European or North American colonies in South America and control or vassalize Peru, Argentina, Chile, and Brazil in 1920 AD.


Egypt:
Spoiler :
2. Build the Sphinx, the Great Pyramid, the Great Lighthouse and the Great Library by 100 BC. (NOTE: The game starts in 3000 BC, but the Pyramids and the Sphinx were built around 2600 BC. Maybe I should admit that's impossible in-game).


England:
Spoiler :
1. Have culture on 80% of longitudes by 1850 and build a railroad from Cape Town to Cairo by 1900 AD.
2. Own 20 Frigates, 20 Ships of the Line, and sink 50 ships by 1830.
3. Own more Wonders than any other civilization and be the first to enter the Industrial and Modern Eras.


France:
Spoiler :
2. Control or vassalize 50% of Europe and 40% of North America in 1830 and 40% of Africa, and 5% of Asia and South America in 1870. (NOTE: Asking to do so by 1800 would be ahistorical, as Napoleon had not spread his empire yet).


Germany:
Spoiler :
2. Control Austria, Poland, the Netherlands, England, Scandinavia, and Russia and control or vassalize France, Italy, and Spain in 1950 AD.
3. Be the first to reach the Future Era.


Greece:
Spoiler :
2. Build the Oracle, the Parthenon, the Colossus, the Temple of Artemis and the Statue of Zeus by 250 BC.
3. Control Egypt, Phoenicia, Babylon, and Persia in 300 BC.


Holy Rome:
Spoiler :
1. Control St. Peter’s Basilica ,the Church of the Anastasis and the Temple of Solomon and be the Pope in 1200 AD. (Like any God-&-Pope-sanctioned Holy Roman Emperor)
2. Found Protestantism and ensure there are at least 3 Catholic Cathedrals and 3 Protestant Cathedrals in the world by 1600 AD.
3. Have 5 Great Artists settled in Vienna by 1800 AD.


Italy:
Spoiler :
3. Control 65% of the Mediterranean Sea and Eastern Africa by 1930 AD.


Japan:
Spoiler :
1. Have an average of 6000 culture per city without ever loosing a single city and at least 20 Samurai, 3 Barracks and two Castles in 1600 AD. (NOTE: I feel like this should be checked in the 1700 AD scenario, because otherwise wanting the UHV is to play in the 3000 BC or 600 AD scenario, but that means having a boring early game, unless we could somehow have the Mongol invasion, the Sengoku period, and Ainu barbarians).
2. Control directly or though vassals Korea, China, Manchuria, Indochina, Indonesia, Australia and Polynesia in 1950.


Mexico:
Spoiler :
1. Build three Catholic Cathedrals by 1880 and acquire at least three technologies through diplomacy or espionage by 1910. (NOTE: I suppose this one means the Reformation, when Benito Juarez separated church and state, but I also wanted this to be a tribute to Porfirio Díaz who, although a dictator, had a lot of technology and culture come to Mexico during his time)
2. Have a “We Love the King” day under Dynasticism, Autocracy and Republic by 1910 and earn three Great Generals by 1940. (NOTE: This is supposed to represent the Mexican Revolution of 1910 but it would be cool to reference the fact that Mexico was, within its first 100 years of existence, two monarchies, three federal republics, two centralist republics, and two dictatorships)
3. Have Mexico City be the largest city in the world and have two Golden Ages by 1960.


Poland:
Spoiler :
1. Have an average population of 12 per city without losing a single city by 1400 AD.
3. Build three Cathedrals of any religion by 1600 AD. (NOTE: Just in case any non-Christian religion like Judaism or Islam spreads into your lands)


Russia:
Spoiler :
1. Found 10 colonies in Siberia and 1 colony in Alaska by 1750 AD and build the Trans-Siberian railway by 1920 AD.
2. Be the first civilization to complete the Manhattan Project and the Apollo Program and own a total of 20 Security Bureaus and Intelligence Agencies.
3. Build St. Basil’s Cathedral and Lubyanka in your capital and have Friendly relations, Vassal state or a Defensive Pact with 10 communist nations by 1960. (ИОТЕ: коммциіѕт мцсж? і тжоцбжт ѕо. And it's pretty challenging, as Friendly relations with more than two is barely possible unless you vassalize them)
 
Egypt:
Spoiler :
2. Build the Sphinx, the Great Pyramid, the Great Lighthouse and the Great Library by 100 BC. (NOTE: The game starts in 3000 BC, but the Pyramids and the Sphinx were built around 2600 BC. Maybe I should admit that's impossible in-game).

Possible UHV spoiler alert:
Spoiler :
It's likely that figuring out that you should build Sphinx as Egypt (to satisfy culture requirement) is part of the UHV challenge and the reason why it's not explicitly mentioned.
 
@ DarkLunaPhantom if that is the only way to achieve the UHV it is bad design and should be changed.

@ Genghis Khaiser

In all your suggestions you seem to make the UHV harder.
In some by adding some unrelated (to the original requirement, though imo very interesting) requirements.

That results in turning the condition into a little UHV itself.
But I for one like that idea. I think it is an interesting concept to have a situation (a group of not necessary related achievements) in stead of one achievement as a condition for an UHV.
 
All I really want is deadlines based on the actual historical timeline. England having to colonize the world before 1730 is just completely bonkers for one.
 
Possible UHV spoiler alert:
Spoiler :
It's likely that figuring out that you should build Sphinx as Egypt (to satisfy culture requirement) is part of the UHV challenge and the reason why it's not explicitly mentioned.

Oh, I hadn't seen it that way. You're right.

@ DarkLunaPhantom if that is the only way to achieve the UHV it is bad design and should be changed.

@ Genghis Khaiser

In all your suggestions you seem to make the UHV harder.
In some by adding some unrelated (to the original requirement, though imo very interesting) requirements.

That results in turning the condition into a little UHV itself.
But I for one like that idea. I think it is an interesting concept to have a situation (a group of not necessary related achievements) in stead of one achievement as a condition for an UHV.

In most of them, actually, for example, I thought Colombia's 2nd condition and Russia's 3rd were too difficult and luck-based. I also tried not to have more than two components per condition.

The Golden Age requirement for Mexico us redundant, as you'll get one after achieving the first two goals.

I see, changed that.

All I really want is deadlines based on the actual historical timeline. England having to colonize the world before 1730 is just completely bonkers for one.

Fully agree. That's the reason behind my modifications on Japan's, Germany's, France's, Greece's, and England's UHV's.
 
Italy:
Spoiler :

3. Control Libia, Greece, Somalia and Ethiopia instead of percentage of mediterranean coast.
 
English first 2 UHVs are already a tedious minmax tradeoff between building Settlers vs building Ships, because neither Settlers nor Ships are very interesting to build (compared to Land Combat Units, Wonders, Unique Buildings, or even some regular Buildings - see Rome and Mughal UHVs for example).

These UHVs should be replaced instead of made more tediously minmax with higher required numbers.

Specifically, the shipbuilding UHV should be replaced because it absurdly forbids a competent English player from upgrading its navy to Destroyers.
 
Possible UHV spoiler alert:
Spoiler :
It's likely that figuring out that you should build Sphinx as Egypt (to satisfy culture requirement) is part of the UHV challenge and the reason why it's not explicitly mentioned.
Same idea with Greece and Statute of Zeus.
 
English first 2 UHVs are already a tedious minmax tradeoff between building Settlers vs building Ships, because neither Settlers nor Ships are very interesting to build (compared to Land Combat Units, Wonders, Unique Buildings, or even some regular Buildings - see Rome and Mughal UHVs for example).

These UHVs should be replaced instead of made more tediously minmax with higher required numbers.

Specifically, the shipbuilding UHV should be replaced because it absurdly forbids a competent English player from upgrading its navy to Destroyers.

I actually like the colonizing UHV, I just want the deadline to be in the late 19th century instead of the early 18th. The shipbuilding UHV could be changed to "Have more naval power than any other civilization in 18XX AD", which could be achieved in several ways, be it by spamming lots of ships, beelining the Industrial era and building oil powered ships and/or by sinking the competition. This would allow the player great freedom in how exactly they should go about it. Ideally I would also like promotions to count for the power rating so ships trained in a city with a Military Instructor, a Drydock and the Trafalgar Square count as more powerful than ships without any XP whatsoever. If that's too complicated perhaps something like this could work: "In 18XX have the highest naval power rating in the world and more total Experience among all your ships than any other civilization."

The colonizing UHV could be further spiced up by adding a Cape to Cairo Railroad condition with a deadline around 1900 so mighty Britannia actually gets to experience the time of its historical golden age.
 
English first 2 UHVs are already a tedious minmax tradeoff between building Settlers vs building Ships, because neither Settlers nor Ships are very interesting to build (compared to Land Combat Units, Wonders, Unique Buildings, or even some regular Buildings - see Rome and Mughal UHVs for example).

These UHVs should be replaced instead of made more tediously minmax with higher required numbers.

Specifically, the shipbuilding UHV should be replaced because it absurdly forbids a competent English player from upgrading its navy to Destroyers.

If you don't like building ships, then maybe England isn't the civ for you.

I like having UHV's that slightly exaggerate history. The civ should have to do something that goes above and beyond what actually happened. I've always REALLY wanted the England UHV to be a true realization of the "Sun Never Sets" idea: Have culture at every longitude by xx date. It's really only slightly harder than the current UHV, but it's way more elegant and cool. It is possible, and you actually have quite a few interesting options on how to play it.
 
I actually like the colonizing UHV, I just want the deadline to be in the late 19th century instead of the early 18th.

The shipbuilding UHV could be changed to "Have more naval power than any other civilization in 18XX AD", which could be achieved in several ways, be it by spamming lots of ships, beelining the Industrial era and building oil powered ships and/or by sinking the competition.

The colonizing UHV could be further spiced up by adding a Cape to Cairo Railroad condition with a deadline around 1900 so mighty Britannia actually gets to experience the time of its historical golden age.
Agreed on all accounts.

England's naval UHV could also be "Have a more powerful navy than the rest of the world combined".

If you don't like building ships, then maybe England isn't the civ for you.
Ships are fun to build as the Moors because you actually do things with them instead of just reach a certain number.

England's first 2 UHV is entirely a mathematical optimization problem of WHEN to build ships and WHEN to build settlers. Once you figured it out (e.g. that you should build a lot of Triremes to be upgraded later into Frigates) there is nothing left to play with.

This kind of puzzle-like UHV is fine for a start early end early civ like Babylon, but not for a civ which is meant to be played for quite a while and hence is expected to have a more complex and varied strategy.

TL;DR too passive and too predictable.

I've always REALLY wanted the England UHV to be a true realization of the "Sun Never Sets" idea: Have culture at every longitude by xx date. It's really only slightly harder than the current UHV, but it's way more elegant and cool. It is possible, and you actually have quite a few interesting options on how to play it.
Brilliant! Except

[1] You only need 3 points to achieve a physical "Sun Never Sets"

[2] IIRC there are many longitudes in the Pacific which lack colonizable land, and it will be tedious to colonize them regardless.

So I suggest that this be modified along the lines of the Italian Mare Nostrum UHV to:

Have culture at 80% of longitudes by xx date.
 
The colonization of the English Empire was intentional. That it turned out to be an empire where the sun never sets is accidental.

It is a fun UHV but fundamentally different from the colonization UHV.

Therefore I think the empire where the sun never sets better fits naval superiority than colonization. (they both share the global projection of (naval) power)

I really like the 100% part so if that isn't (practically) feasable on the current map I think the map should be adjusted.
 
[1] You only need 3 points to achieve a physical "Sun Never Sets"

In fact, you only need 2 points to achieve a physical 'Sun Never Sets'. One point north of the Arctic Circle, and the other point south of the Antarctic Circle with the opposite Longitude.:)
 
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