The Civs 6
King
- Joined
- May 27, 2020
- Messages
- 782
First of all, there are two premises to this thread: 1) we are all in this together, and we have to find ways to cooperate (which includes respecting that others are serving the public good or at least are self-interested and try to avoid unnecessary harm to others within the limits of bounded rationality); 2) reasoned discourse, even among those who you think have evil beliefs, is the basis of any public solution in a democracy.
As we know from the preliminary discussions, there is at least some disagreement about methods. For example, we might all agree that it is bad for coconut producers to employ forced monkey labor. But we disagree about what to do to solve this problem, and the role of the state in that solution. I think a productive first step to healing the political breach is just to settle on identification of key problems.
I don't pretend to offer a comprehensive list, but I think there are two key tranches:
The environment and the economy:
If global warming is as bad as scientist's currently think it will be (and we trust scientists all the time, such as when we ride a roller coaster, so why not suppose they are right?), this is our world's most serious problem. Environmental disaster will reduce the size of the pie for everyone in the world and lead to more fighting over the pie. A second issue here is dependence on finite resources. This isn't a new issue, as evinced by late antiquity deforestation in Europe. But it is a catastrophic issue. We can't have our lifestyle without using non-muscle energy. One time I did the math, and the maximum possible KJ you can generate with muscle power is several magnitudes less than what we are running on. Therefore, a second environmental issue is the need to transition to sources of energy that are not finite.
Equality:
I'm going to frame this a little differently than you might figure. There has been recent research suggesting an increase in despair in the United States, despite the fact that this country has continued as by far the wealthiest in the world. You can't quite pin the problem on economics, or something tangible. In fact, by many measures, violence, early pregnancies and some types of drug use - the standard indicators of social despair - are down. More people are taking serious drugs, that often result in death, and that is just a symptom of something really bad that is happening. A somewhat related issue is race. Again, I don't think any one statistic captures what happens here. Minorities get trapped into an authoritarian and impersonal legal system that primarily serves the needs of those with money and influence. This system doesn't "temper mercy with justice", as it we as a country are morally obligated to do. Moreover, unwittingly, our nation has created a structure that reserves privilege, honor and material comfort to a limited few. This system doesn't exclude minorities, but it caters to the majority, and minorities fall out of the system early and often. Not only is this bad for the long-term health of the economy, but it is fundamentally unjust. And it results in minorities disproportionately falling into the "despair zone" of US society. And in that despair zone, they are more likely to encounter real and unfortunately still extant racism.
I hope you don't jump on me for how I framed the problems. I tried to do so in a nuanced way based on research and scholarship, rather than relying on more common notions. I also think that a lot of discussion pre-supposes some ideas that probably need to be justified before they are included. And of course, feel free to add other problems you think are worth discussing.
As we know from the preliminary discussions, there is at least some disagreement about methods. For example, we might all agree that it is bad for coconut producers to employ forced monkey labor. But we disagree about what to do to solve this problem, and the role of the state in that solution. I think a productive first step to healing the political breach is just to settle on identification of key problems.
I don't pretend to offer a comprehensive list, but I think there are two key tranches:
The environment and the economy:
If global warming is as bad as scientist's currently think it will be (and we trust scientists all the time, such as when we ride a roller coaster, so why not suppose they are right?), this is our world's most serious problem. Environmental disaster will reduce the size of the pie for everyone in the world and lead to more fighting over the pie. A second issue here is dependence on finite resources. This isn't a new issue, as evinced by late antiquity deforestation in Europe. But it is a catastrophic issue. We can't have our lifestyle without using non-muscle energy. One time I did the math, and the maximum possible KJ you can generate with muscle power is several magnitudes less than what we are running on. Therefore, a second environmental issue is the need to transition to sources of energy that are not finite.
Equality:
I'm going to frame this a little differently than you might figure. There has been recent research suggesting an increase in despair in the United States, despite the fact that this country has continued as by far the wealthiest in the world. You can't quite pin the problem on economics, or something tangible. In fact, by many measures, violence, early pregnancies and some types of drug use - the standard indicators of social despair - are down. More people are taking serious drugs, that often result in death, and that is just a symptom of something really bad that is happening. A somewhat related issue is race. Again, I don't think any one statistic captures what happens here. Minorities get trapped into an authoritarian and impersonal legal system that primarily serves the needs of those with money and influence. This system doesn't "temper mercy with justice", as it we as a country are morally obligated to do. Moreover, unwittingly, our nation has created a structure that reserves privilege, honor and material comfort to a limited few. This system doesn't exclude minorities, but it caters to the majority, and minorities fall out of the system early and often. Not only is this bad for the long-term health of the economy, but it is fundamentally unjust. And it results in minorities disproportionately falling into the "despair zone" of US society. And in that despair zone, they are more likely to encounter real and unfortunately still extant racism.
I hope you don't jump on me for how I framed the problems. I tried to do so in a nuanced way based on research and scholarship, rather than relying on more common notions. I also think that a lot of discussion pre-supposes some ideas that probably need to be justified before they are included. And of course, feel free to add other problems you think are worth discussing.