Ideologies and Unique Ideological Victories

[Imperator Knoedel]

So I thought about this some more, enough to warrant its own thread in fact.

While it might have its merits to include ideologies as a religion like feature that you actively have to spread or purge in cities, they can just as well be represented as certain civic combinations that each unlock a Unique Ideological Victory.

Now what are the possible ideologies a civ could be following? According to their relevancy in history I would say:

Liberalism, defined as not running civics that are not City States or Dynasticism or Republic, Representation or Egalitarianism, Capitalism or Industrialism or Public Welfare, any Economy civic but Central Planning, any Religion civic but Fanaticism;

Communism, defined as not running civics that are not any Government civic but Dynasticism and Theocracy, any Society civic but Vassalage, any Labor civic but Tribalism and Agrarianism, Central Planning, any Religion civic but Fanaticism;

Fascism, defined as not running civics that are not any Government civic, Totalitarianism, any Labor civic, any Economy civic but Central Planning, any Religion civic.

Any civ that is not running a combination of civics that makes it eligible for any of these ideologies is reactionary/traditional whatever, and then one might be tempted to make a difference between dictatorships (Autocracy without Totalitarianism or Central Planning) and monarchies, lest we ignore poor Napoleon. We can consider that later, for now I want to present a suggestion for possible UIHs:

Liberalism
-With liberty and justice for all/We the people/Liberté: Have the highest GNP in the world for at last ten consecutive turns
-The invisible hand/Fraterinté: Accumulate 10000 commerce with trade routes to other civilizations
-Tear down that wall/Arsenal of democracy/Egalité: Make sure no civ in the world is running Totalitarianism or Central Planning

Communism
-A spectre is haunting Europe: Have the highest production and research in the world for at least ten consecutive turns
-Workers of the world unite/International solidarity: Make sure at least two thirds of the world's civs are communist and have pleased or friendly relations with you
-Dictatorship of the Proletariat: Make your people the happiest and healthiest in the world for at least ten consecutive turns

Fascism
-Just worried citizens/National purity/Übermensch/Master race: Without ever losing a city make sure all your cities have at least 95% of your culture for 10 consecutive turns after you already conquered at least three enemy cities
-Eternal struggle of races/Total war: Control the cores of at least five other civilizations
-Nanananana leader/Il duce/The state is everything: Have the most powerful military in the world for at least ten consecutive turns

Also I'd really like it if leaders get additional diplomatic modifiers based on ideology in addition to the ones based on favorite civic.

Thoughts?

 

[King of Zeal]

This reminds me of an even bigger set of ideas I had that are relevant to your topic. I actually had an idea for a total overhaul to the victory conditions that I wanted to put into a large post forever ago and never got around to it because I stopped playing the mod due to lack of time. Your ideological idea actually lines up with one piece of what I had in mind because I wanted to break down the victory conditions into three types of victories: historic, ideological, and scientific. The reasoning behind me wanting to propose this is because I think the victory conditions are a mess, the generic win conditions are near impossible for most civs (clutter), and winning feels generally unsatisfying to me except for historic victory even though I enjoy playing non-historic victory games. If I get the time, I'll try to put that proposal into its own post and I'll make sure to reference this post.

 

[Publicola]

The only problem I see is that all three of these are basically 20th-century ideologies, with origins firmly in the modern era.

I'd also suggest non-modern ideological victory conditions, perhaps:

• Feudalism -- for medieval era
• City-States -- for classical antiquity. Though perhaps this might be remade as 'Leagues', a la the Peloponnesian wars

 

[Qiu]

My former ideas:

Now we are discussing about adding URV. However, we all know that DoC reflects a much more long history than SoI, and to a greater extent.

What kind of conflicts are the main theme of 18-20 century that is similar to medieval religious conflicts? I think the answer is the conflicts between different ideals, or ideologies.

Besides, many "ancient" civs have not much to do in AD1700 scenario. Cultural and Space victory could be boring for experienced players. Those who plays Latin-american civs could also want to play something different.

So what about adding Unique Ideological Victories (UIV) for different political-economic forms?

For example, Unique Ideological Victory for those adopt Central Planning could be:

1. A spectre is haunting Europe: produce more than 3000 espionage point per turn
(Beside its old meaning, it could also present a new way to chase up European civs in the game )

2. L'Internationale: the same as the Russian UHV 3 or something that kind

3. For Human Liberation or Exploitation: specialists produce more output than the combination of towns, trade routes and corporations on a global level

Ideas for Fascism UIV

1. one nation, one leader: experience 30 "We Love Our Dictator" celebration
2. magnificent as our nation: build 5 world wonder
3. new living space (or Lebensraum?): conqure 30% land area (or conqure 25% land area that is foreign or foreign core)

Ideas for Environmentalism UIV:

1. No Trading, No Killing: control x camps and x preserved forest

2. Reduce, Reuse & Recycle: make sure x cities in the world are powered solely by hydro plant and restrain the construction of x coal plant, nuclear plant or industrial park

3. One World. One Chance. Vote Us!: elected as the UN secretary and pass certain resolutions

More former discussion http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=512384

 

[Force44]

I really like the idea of having more ways to achieve victory.

On the other hand there are already UHV (Unique Historical Victories) and URV (Unique Religious Victories) so it feels a bit like more of the same.

The U*Vs (the Unique *ing Victories) are reminiscent of a checkmate (make a certain configuration of the playing pieces possible to achieve victory)

Looking at it this way we already have two ways to checkmate. How would a third way to checkmate improve the game? (contrary to my gutfeeling this seems to deteriorate the game a bit)

The UHV's give a golden age and a really nice building when 2 out of 3 conditions are completed and are restricted to one civilization.
The URV's sofar give no such bonus on route to achieving said victory and are not restricted to any civilization (though you can not switch religion once committed to completing one of the availabe victories, I believe it is possible to achieve an URV-condition before switching to the corresponding religion (which I consider to be an oversight, and I think should be fixed (URV-conditions should only be completable when you are running the corresponding religion, completion of a condition for a certain UHV when not running that certain reliogion should result in a failure for that condition)))

The URV's already seem a bit inferior to UHV's to me.

How are you planning to (further) differentiate the UID's from the URV's?

What I consider would be really awesome would be if the U*V's got overhauled and integrated.

eg complete four victoryconditions when only three are theoretically available but you can (and shoud and must) substitute one victorycondition from one U*V category with two victoryconditions from the other U*V categories.

 

[J422]

Well, those seem a little easy...

And I still think communism deserves to be a religion, it might just be the thing that would make 19th an 20th century more interesting (and then communist UIV, which is the most fun anyway, would just be a URV)

 

[citis]

This thread demands me to post this .

Communism:
*Planned economy: Have the biggest production and commerce output running state property.
*Abolishment of classes: Have aproval rate over 90% and average city size over 10.
*Comintern: Make sure that the first four civs in score run Republic, Public Welfare and Secularism for 10 turns.

Environmentalism:
*Substainable economy: Make sure that the unhealthiness is less than the half of healthiness in every your city.
*No nuclears: Make sure that the NPT passes the UN, that there are no nuclear weapons or fallouts in the world.
*Congress of Kyoto: Make sure that more all civilisations run environmentalism.

I would suggest no nuclear plants in the world, but there isn't any mechanism to persuade a civ to shut down its nuclear plants.


Liberalism:
*Popular Sovereignty: Make sure that more than 75% of civs run represenation or egalitarianism
*Economic freedom: Make sure that more than 75% of civs run free market.
*Religious freedom: Make sure that the secularism civic passes in the UN.

Fascism:
*Superior race: Be the strongest, the technologically more advanced civ in the world and first in score.
*Lebensraum: Make sure to control any kind of strategic resource. Make sure to fully control your core and historical (contested included) area.
*Unification of continent: Control all the cities of one continent.

Full control means: Covering all the area with your own culture.
Continents:
*Europe: Greenland, iceland included, mediterrenian islands included, Porta Delgad included.
*Africa: Mozamvique, and the canarian islands included.
*Asia: Siberia excluded. Everything eastern than the hindus delta excluded. Indonesia and micronesia included.
*North America: Including carrabean and Panama strait.
*South America
*Middle east: This "continent" is the only to overlay others. It includes all the asian excluded above, North Africa, the mediterrainean isles, south spain south italy and India.

Australia too small to be considered a continent in these goal. Asia is too big to include the already too big siberia or the middle east.

aaaaa

 

[need my speed]

A lot of these ideas are a bit silly. They're nice in theory, but not in practice. Control every strategic resource is a bit ridiculous. Get almost all civilisations to change civics - okay, I guess you have Spies, on second thought, but that'd be seen as terrorism, then. 'Make sure there are no nuclear weapons' is shorthand for 'be the tech leader', for once people start building nuclear weapons you'll need to invade them, which isn't very environmental. The health/happiness goal will be done by starving your citizens. But these are just random ideas my eye fell on, there are more, in other posts.

EDIT: The post below provides even more examples; 'make sure there never is a war between republics' is impossible, unless you switch everyone out of a republican civic the moment they switch into it (but what if they do it during a war?), removing all slaves and slave plantations is also impossible (except for world conquest), trading or using slaves is limited to certain civilisations I believe, multilateralism would require you to switch into a form of government nobody uses and quickly switch a friendly civilisation to that as well...

 

[citis]

Let me bring this thread back to life

like your idea and plus it would avoid a civ with free market to get the Environmentalist UIV(but do not forget the military column)
Government

Dynasticism:Long Live the king:experience 5 "we love the king".
City state: Our city is the bestMake you cities the first in the top 5 (thanks to Hojsimpson for the idea)
Theocracy:One world,one religion:Make sure that 2/3 of the world are your state religion.
Autocracy:Unification of a continent:Conquer or vassalize a continent.
Republic:Spread the freedom: pass the Republic global civic resolution

Organization

Vassalage:Vassal owner:Have 3 vassals
Absolutism:Absolutely no freedom: Do not let anyone adopt and stay alive OR stay representation or egalitarianism(you have 20 turns to turn them to Absolutism)
Representation:We represent the people:Make sure every city has a specialist of every kind(Great people DO NOT COUNT)
Totalitarianism:no anarchists accepted:Have 100 Military units fortify in your cities.
Egalitarianismass the Egalitarianism as a global civic resolution.

Labor

Slavery:slaves for all!:Trade,Use OR sell 20 slaves.
Agrarianism:No ubranisim!:Achieve 900 gold with 0 cottages OR build farms and pastures everywhere.(thanks to build Hojsimpson for the idea)
Capitalism:Money for me!:Have 1200 gold.
Industrialist:Work for all:Have 35 forge,coal power plant,factory and workshop.
Public welfare:Government help:Have 50 groceries, Supermarket, Markets, library, university and hospitals

Economy

Guilds:Each city for its own:Have 7 total specialist in each city.
Mercantilism:Only us: No trading for 150 turns in a row.
Free market:Trade with all: Built a harbor and a airport in every city and open borders with 10 civ.
Central planning:Trade with our kind: open borders with 6 other civ with central planning.
environmentalist:Protect our environment: pass the environmentalist and no nuclear weapon resolution.

religion

pantheon:Only several gods: Do not allow any other religion for 90 turns
Organized religion:I do not know
Scholastic:Study our god:Have a total 16 priest
Fanaticism:One country,one godHave only one religion in your country for 200 turns in a row (note:you have 15 turns to convert you newly conquered city to one religion).
Secular:Freedom of religion for allass the secular religion resolution.

Military
I only have an idea for these:
Naval dominance:Have 120 Naval units
Mercantilism:Have 60 mercenaries

Some adjustments:

Government

Republic:Democracy peace theorem: Make sure there is never war between republics.


Organization

Vassalage:Vassal owner:Have 5 vassals
Absolutism:Roi Soleil: Your capital be the first in cities score.
Representation:Indirect democracy: Have the highest approval rate.
Totalitarianism: Order and safety: Be solid and see through espionage all cities in the world.
Egalitarianism: Abolishment of slavery Make sure there is no civ running slavery, there are no slave plantations, slaves slave specialists in the world.

Labor

Slavery: Republic built upon slaves: Trade or use 50 slaves, slaves plantations or slave specialists.
Agrarianism: Jeffersonian republic: Build farms and pastures everywhere. (thanks to build Hojsimpson for the idea)
Capitalism: The wealth of nations:Have the highest GNP
Industrialist: Modern times: Have the biggest production in the world.
Public welfare: Welfare state: Make sure all your cities have groceries, Supermarket, Markets, library, university and hospital


Economy

Guilds:Spread the guilds: Build forge, market, groceries and banks in all your cities.
Mercantilism:Only us: No trading for 150 turns in a row.
Free market:Invisible hand: Built a harbor and a airport in every city and open borders with 10 civ.
Central planning:Trade with our kind: open borders with 6 other civ with central planning.
environmentalist:Protect our environment: pass the environmentalist and no nuclear weapon resolution.



religion

Organized religion: Accumulate 1000 culture points from religious buildings.

Military

Mercanaries:rapid conquest Triple the area you control in less than 10 turns
Levitary armies: land defenders Build walls, castle and forts in all your cities. Defend every city and every fort with at least one archer, one melee and one mounted unit.
Naval dominance: naval dominance Have more ships, stronger fleet, bigger cargo space than all your rivals combined.
Standing army: Professionalism Make sure your most productive city can produce a unit with 13XP points (civics exluded).
Multilateralism: Globalisation Make sure to have pleased or friendly relations with all civs that run the same form of government like you.

 

[Wessel V1]

I think that if this is implemented it would have to be in a smart way. As said before, there are already 2 unique ways to achieve victory, being the UHV and URV. It is not easy to come up with new concepts that are fun, not trivial, not impossible and require a concentrated effort. A victory condition should be something you aim at the entire game, not something that happens by accident just because you play well. Many conditions I read in this thread can be achieved by either micromanaging a big empire one or a few turns or require an almost impossible spy effort. Sorry to spoil the party here, especially because I can't up with any interesting ideas myself. At best, I see the UIVs be integrated in the URV set. After all, both are about believing in a concept, and (at least the proposed) ideologies are just the modern way of doing so.

 

[Ani Taneen]

What about roling these in with the diplomatic victory? Like instead of one diplomatic victory (have everyone vote for you), you'd have one for each of these three, with one of the qualifications being, having others vote for you?

So liberalism, requires the spread of free markets and religious tolerance (world peace being achived by the fact that democracies don't easily wage war on each other). Let no core area be controlled by a foreign civ.

Communism, Spread communistic ideals. Eventually be voted world leader

Autocracy, vassalize the top 7 civs?

 

[calad]

There was a debate some time ago and one conclusion was that pre 19th century religious victory should be enabled and post 19th religious victory would be replaced by ideological victory.