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Ideologies revealed

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Optimizer, May 17, 2013.

?

Which ideology seems strongest?

  1. Autocracy

    46 vote(s)
    28.0%
  2. Freedom

    61 vote(s)
    37.2%
  3. Order

    57 vote(s)
    34.8%
  1. Optimizer

    Optimizer Sthlm, SWE

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2001
    Messages:
    692
    With today's preview, all ideology tenets are revealed.

    Autocracy
    Elite Forces: Wounded units inflict 25% more damage.
    Mobilization: -33% Gold cost for units.
    United Front: Militaristic City-States grant units twice as often when at war with a common foe.
    Futurism: +100 Tourism with all known civs when a Great Writer, Artist or Musician is born.
    Industrial Espionage: Spies steal technologies twice as fast.
    Fortified Borders: +2 Happiness from Walls, Castle, Arsenal and Military Base.
    Universal Healthcare: +2 Happiness from each National Wonder.

    Militarism: +2 Happiness from Baracks, Armory and Military Academy.
    Lightning Warfare: +3 Movement for Great Generals. Armor units gain +15% attack, 1 movement and ignore enemy ZOC.
    Police State: +3 Happiness from Courthouses. Build Courthouses twice as fast.
    Nationalism: -33% unit maintenance costs.
    Third Alternative: Doubled strategic resources. +5 Food and +5 Science in capital.
    Total War: +25% military unit production. New units start with +15 Experience.

    Cult of Personality: +50% Tourism to civilizations fighting a common enemy.
    Gunboat Diplomacy: +6 influence/turn with City-states you could demand tribute from.
    Clausewitz Legacy: 25% bonus to attack for all military units for the next 50 turns.

    Freedom
    Avant Garde: +25% Great People
    Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work
    Civil Society: Specialists consume half the amount of Food
    Covert Action: Better chance to rig city-state elections
    Capitalism: +1 Happiness from Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange
    Economic Union: +3 Gold from each trade route with Freedom civilizations
    Universal Healthcare: +2 Happiness from each National Wonder

    Voluntary Army: 6 units are maintenance free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion
    Urbanization: +1 Happiness from each Granary, Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital.
    Their Finest Hour: Combat strength of cities increased by 33%.
    Universal Suffrage: Specialists in Cities produce 50% less unhappiness. Golden Ages are 50% longer.
    New Deal: All Great Person improvements produce +4 of the appropriate yield.
    Arsenal of Democracy: +25% military unit production. +20 influence from military unit gifts to city-states.

    Media Culture: +34% Tourism from cities with a Broadcast Tower.
    Treaty Organization: Gain +4 influence per turn with city-states you have pledged to protect.
    Space Procurements: May buy Spaceship parts with Gold.

    Order
    Hero of the People: +25% Great People
    Socialist Realism: +2 Happiness from Monuments. Build Monuments twice as fast.
    Skyscrapers: -33% Gold cost for purchasing buildings.
    Patriotic War: +15% attack bonus in friendly territory.
    Double Agents: Spies twice as likely to capture enemy spies attempting to steal tech.
    Young Pioneers: +1 Happiness from Workshop, Factory, Solar, Nuclear & Hydro Plant.
    Universal Healthcare: +2 Happiness from each National Wonder.

    Academy: +1 Happiness from every University, Observatory, Public School & Research Lab.
    Party Leadership: +1 Food, Production, Science, Gold and Culture per city.
    Resettlement: New cities start with +1 population
    Cultural Revolution: +34% Tourism to other Order civilizations.
    Workers Faculties: Factories increase a city's science by 25%. Build Factories twice as fast.
    Five-year Plan: +2 Production per city and +1 Production for every Mine and Quarry.

    Dictatorship of the Proletariat: +34% Tourism to civilizations with less Happiness.
    Iron Curtain: Free Courthuse upon city capture
    Spaceflight Pioneers: May finish Spaceship parts with Great Engineers: +10 science in capital.

    Are you happy with the ideologies? Does anyone seem stronger?
     
  2. Martinus

    Martinus Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2001
    Messages:
    1,853
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Warsaw, Poland
    They seem to be all balanced - in fact some tenets are shared between them. I like it.
     
  3. labrynianrebel

    labrynianrebel Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    274
    Location:
    USA, Former Northwest Territory
     
  4. Kennan

    Kennan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Sweden
    They seem balanced. Tow tenants have striked me as really strong.

    Autocracy
    Lighning Warfare:
    +3 Movment for GG. Armour units gain +15% attack, +1 movment and ignore enemy ZOC

    Can be a real game-changer on rapid conquest

    Freedom
    Gain 4 more influence per turn with City-States you have pledged to protect

    Pemanent ally with all CS???
     
  5. anandus

    anandus Errorist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    3,858
    Location:
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Can't wait until I can play a domination game with autocracy :)
     
  6. Inspector Javert

    Inspector Javert Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    510
    Not sure why Avant Garde is in freedom. Wasn't the Avant garde strongly associated with the Axis powers in WWII. I can't for the life of me remember the title but there's a book that theorizes WWII was bout Avant Guard versus liberal modernism. And universal healthcare seems more in line with Order.
     
  7. Snes

    Snes Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Texas
    Am I the only one who finds it odd that Universal Healthcare is listed as a Freedom tenant? Isn't that more of an Order thing, being a centralized government-run system?
     
  8. Inhalaattori

    Inhalaattori Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2003
    Messages:
    1,490
    Location:
    Up North
    Its also in Order and Autocracy. In fact it seems "Universal Healthcare" is only tenet that is in all three ideologies. They really seem to like Universal Healthcare at Firaxis.
     
  9. bagas12

    bagas12 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    97
    The last one of autocracy, is the bonus for combat, it is 25% combat bonus for 25 turns after this tenet is selected.

    Something like that
     
  10. Gali

    Gali Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    543
    I may switch between them all depending on flavor. If I had to choose the biggest gainer it would be Autocracy. It now gives great opportunities for happiness in core as well as conquered cities. Also Lightning warfare just sounds FUN. Gives Autocracy players something to speed up conquest and feel like their ideology is improving unit abilities not just stat boni.

    Order and Freedom are both interesting though really Freedom still seems to be the choice for culture victory unless a bunch of AI's went Order. Dictatorship of the Proletariat is useless for humans on any difficulty above Prince.

    So to my eye it looks like Freedom is the best for Culture, and fine for Space, while Order is great for Space and okay at culture, and Autocracy is for Domination. Still at least they now all have tenets outside their fields. Freedom has Volunteer army for military, Communism has free courthouse for domination and Autocracy has plenty of happiness to allow them to grow tall at home and support conquests. It even has Gunboat diplomacy to help with diplo victory.

    I also love how each has its own espionage bonus. Though I may need to kill Freedom civs to protect my city states.
     
  11. Optimizer

    Optimizer Sthlm, SWE

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2001
    Messages:
    692
    I would have preferred Freedom to get a Science lead; sad to see them without a single Science-related bonus. Industrial Espionage for Autocracy is just silly; Neither Nazi Germany, nor any other real-world nation representing Autocracy (Franco, Mussolini, Latin American dictators etc), was successful in obtaining technology from other nations.

    Many tenet effects seem lackluster, and will not affect strategic depth. I don't think either of the Happiness bonuses would be a deal-breaker for what to produce when.

    Another disappointment is that Order has only one military-related tenet, while Freedom has three. Does not correspond to the real world.
     
  12. kirbdog

    kirbdog King

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    898
    I found that interesting too. Gold-rushed spaceship parts makes Freedom good for space victories but no direct benefits to science. And the value of that depends on how hard it is to reach tier three.
     
  13. Inhalaattori

    Inhalaattori Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2003
    Messages:
    1,490
    Location:
    Up North
    Freedom gives some bonus for growth and in CIV V big cities = science. It also gives bonus to creation of great people including great scientists.

    It although seems Freedom is focused on culture and gold. This means that you can use that extra culture to get those rationalism policies and you can use your gold to buy science buildings.
     
  14. Gali

    Gali Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    543
    Will yeah Freedom has no direct science bonuses. Still it has the GPP bonus to help you get great scientists, and Freedom's old specialist bonuses to help you afford those science specialists. It also has Freedoms old Finisher, though split in two to boost your academies and production and gold to get science buildings up quickly. Add in faith bought scientists and that's a pretty big boost through the tree. Order loses a number of those advantages and gives only 1 science per city as a direct bonus. Their spy bonus is nice and may help but on high levels Ais build a lot of defence.

    Freedom even helps you defend from culture players with the free culture from GW. Overall they both give different bonuses that aid in science and a different shortcut for the parts. This expansion has just made Freedom far more viable for Science victories than it was in GK so no direct science benefits seems fine.

    edit. Also since order gave faith bought GE you may not have access to those anymore and that would make stockpiling them harder.
     
  15. ImperialChaos

    ImperialChaos President

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,397
    Location:
    United States
    Freedom seems amazing for a cultural or science victory. Order's capture cities with built courthouses is pretty awesome too.

    I'm an American so I can only pick one choice.
     
  16. El Caballerion

    El Caballerion King

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    938
    Location:
    New York
    Why is UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE part of all of them?
     
  17. Muzzway

    Muzzway Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2007
    Messages:
    46
    There definitely a lot to process here. Each ideology enables so many different possible combinations for a number of different strategies. That's not to mention the issue of the weird pyramid structure for unlocking them.
     
  18. bouncymischa

    bouncymischa Synthetic Genie

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    1,537
    Location:
    In a bottle
    Because a healthy populace benefits your empire no matter what ideology you have?
     
  19. Gali

    Gali Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    543
    Gunboat diplomacy is 6:c5influence: per turn on standard. This is shown in the Rev3 video and there is a screenshot in the thread discussing that video.
     
  20. Monthar

    Monthar Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,037
    Location:
    Elmendorf, Tx
    These five are what made me pick Freedom.

    Six free units and no maintenance cost for 6 units. This is win-win and then some.

    Happiness from growth buildings.

    Two ways to gain lots of influence with CSs. Gifting 5 military units to a CS is better than Sweden's gifting of great people UA, and they're much easier to obtain.

    I sure hope that influence gain from pledge to protect has a cap on it, otherwise it's way overpowered.

    Sure, you can rush the SS parts with a GE by going order, but even if you bought the GE's with faith, the rapid increase in the cost of each coupled with the limited faith income makes this much worse than just buying them with gold, especially since gold if far easier to come by.

    Edit: For those saying there's no direct science bonus in Freedom, keep in mind the, "New Deal: All Great Person improvements produce +4 of the appropriate yield.", means 4 more beakers for each academy.
     

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