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Ideologies

Discussion in 'Civ4 - World 2009 Mod' started by NikNaks, May 22, 2008.

  1. NikNaks

    NikNaks Chieftain

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    If we are going to use the religions system as ideologies, these are our current ideas:

    Political Ideologies:
    Neoliberalism
    Promotion of peace through trade agreements.
    Wahhabism
    Reactionary fundamentalism opposed to the changing times.
    Bolivarianism
    Extra-patriotism, fidelity to not just one's country but one's neighboring countries and one's continent; Venezuela and Russia could have this.
    Progressivism
    This is just an ideaology concerned with advancing the conditions of the state, its people, and the world, by extension. What policies are used depends on the state.
    Juche
    Survivalism at the national level. Belief that a state should be completely self-sufficient, and hostile to any foreigners, with a military to repel them.

    Cultural Ideologies:
    Western (Western Europe, North America, Australia...)
    Orthodox (Russia, Greece, Ex-USSR states...)
    Latin American
    Muslim
    Hindu
    African (Sub-Saharan Africa)
    Sinic (China, Vietnam, Korea...)
    Buddhist (Most of East Asian countries)
    Jewish (Israel)

    Furthermore we could have Cultural Capitals (i.e. Holy Cities) and Cultural Landmarks (i.e. Shrines). Although I'm not sure about these terms and would love it if someone came up with better ones here are my suggestions:

    Western: New York, Statue of Liberty or Los Angeles, Hollywood
    Orthodox: Moscow, Saint Basil's Cathedral
    Latin American: Rio de Janeiro, Cristo Redentor or Caracas, Centro Simón Bolivar
    Muslim: Mecca, The Masjid al-Haram
    Hindu: Varanasi, The Kashi Wishwanath or Mumbai, Bollywood
    African: Addis Ababa, Africa Hall or Addis Ababa, Grave of Haile Selassie
    Eastern: Angkor/Phnom Penh, Angkor Wat or Beijing, Forbidden City (or something else...this is tough)
     
  2. NikNaks

    NikNaks Chieftain

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    Post reserved #1
     
  3. NikNaks

    NikNaks Chieftain

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    Post reserved #2
     
  4. sangeli

    sangeli Major General

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    I think that Islam needs to be two religions: shia and sunni. The differences are too great to ignore.
     
  5. Amogos

    Amogos P.R.A.S.C.O.

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    I would suggest, if you’re going to have holy cities, that they be in the obvious founding city or first location of that culture:

    Western: Rome, St. Peter's Palace (Apostolic Palace)
    Orthodox: Istanbul, Hagia Sophia
    Latin America: Rio de Janeiro, Cristo Redentor
    Muslim: Mecca, Masjid al-Haram
    Hindu: Varanasi, Kashi Wishwanath
    African: Kilwa Kisiwani, Kilwa's Great House (Supposedly the oldist city in Africa)
    Sinic: Beijing, Forbidden Palace (Because the Chinese were the first Easterners)
    Buddhist: Bodh Gaya, Mahabodhi
    Jewish: Jerusalem, Temple of Solomon

    If there are going to be holy cities for political ideologies than Juche’s is in Pong’ yang.
     
  6. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Rather than "Latin American" I'd suggest making the ideology something like "Amerindian" so it can coincide with Western. The continent is too diverse do lump together. Argentina would be a Western country, Bolivia or Ecuador Amerindian, and many others would contain both.
     
  7. Kao'chai

    Kao'chai Newbie in Modding

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    eastern(oriental) : kong miao ( Confucius is one strong figure here in asia)
    BTW. no need for buddhist ideology all eastern countries (including SEA) are the same. I can prove it , cause i live here in SEA myself
     
  8. Mr Historical

    Mr Historical Chieftain

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    ;)I dont know which thread to do this in but if someone knows how to script random events you could have some amusing/relevant ones
    you have been caught cheating with a presdential aide
    :sniper:Silence them -20 gold per 'media' building in civ:dunno:I did not have relations with that woman! chance you might be discovered grows larger with every legal/media building in capital,+mintanance costs for next 2 turns
    :shifty: 'Im sorry':( +:mad:in all cities for next few turns
     
  9. kbrennan7654

    kbrennan7654 Chieftain

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    lol thats a good one
     
  10. NikNaks

    NikNaks Chieftain

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    Er, okay. Duly noted...

    It's the first idea in the events thread :)
     
  11. ianinsane

    ianinsane Chieftain

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    Replacing "Latin American" with "Amerindian" is a great idea. Although I would not merge it with western. I'm not sure if that is what you're proposing. Having Italy be "Amerindian" would be strange.
    But of course your example with Argentina is right. But you could solve this problem by placing "Western" AND "Amerindian" in all Argentinian cities. At the beginning Argentinas "state cultural ideology" (formerly called "state religion" ;)) would be Western. But during the game it could switch to Amerindian. Just like it did in Bolivia with the election of Evo Morales.
     
  12. Toofy

    Toofy Chieftain

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    I strongly disagree on doing this, because the differences are in fact actually very minimal. That, and there is only one country which has a majority of Shia muslims (Iran) which will give Iran a bit of a handicap.
     
  13. ianinsane

    ianinsane Chieftain

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    I think so, too. And since in the Cultural Ideologies model we don't seperate straight along confession lines (also, we don't differentiate between protestant and catholic or Taoist and Confucianist) but more along general political, cultural, sociological, ethnic and religional (all put together) borders I think a distinction of sunni and shia would focus just too much on religion alone.
     
  14. Amogos

    Amogos P.R.A.S.C.O.

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    We will need a way to convert people so what about missionaries?

    Neo Trader
    Fundamentalist
    Patriot Diplomat
    Progress Minister
    Juche Commander

    I will also edit the buildings post for political buildings.
     
  15. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

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    To outsiders looking in, the difference may be minimal. However, the difference has caused wars, thousands of deaths, civil war in Iraq, Al-Qaeda infiltration of Iraq, and tensions in Israel.

    Iraq, Iran, and Bahrain all have Sh'ia majorities.

    As for Ideologies (if they replace Religions): will they be religion-based, culture-based, or politics-based?
     
  16. Aleenik

    Aleenik Chieftain

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    If you want to get technical it wasn't Istanbul where Orthodox was founded, it was Constantinople:) though positioned in nearly the same places they are majorly different..Ottoman Empire/Turkey was/is largely Islamic..while Constantinople of the Byzantine Empire was largely Christian..true it doesn't exist today, it should be represented somehow that it wasn't Otto s or Turkey who founded it
     
  17. sheep21

    sheep21 Chieftain

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    istanbul is postioned EXACTLY where constantinople was, if you really want to get technical, what with them being the same city. :p

    people can look in the civlopeadia if they want to know more of the history IMHO.
     
  18. Aleenik

    Aleenik Chieftain

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    Different Empires, Differnet Cultures, way different..Yes I know its in roughly the same area..with the exception Modern Istanbul is much larger then ancient Constantinople
     
  19. ianinsane

    ianinsane Chieftain

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    Concerning Cultural Ideologies it should be hard to spread them directed. Good relations to the founding civ should increase the spread, bad relations should make it difficult. Since Cultural Ideologies are more locked with population groups and cannot be switched as easily as political ideologies or religions the spread should mainly happen through immigration. Thus we need an immigration system... after all one of the major issues of today's world.
    A foreign corporation in one city could increase the spread, too. So could foreign units. (Just think of the American soldiers in Germany after WWII who introduced us to chewing gum, jeans and t-shirts ;) )
    As a missionary-like unit I could imagine a kind of Cultural PR guy (have to think of a name...) who'd need to work in a city for about 10-20 turns to spread a Cultural Ideology. If successful or not is decided at the end of those turns.
     
  20. ianinsane

    ianinsane Chieftain

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    The "ideology"-system suggested would base on politics. The "cultural ideology"-system suggested would base on a combination of all three of them and leave concrete political, governmental, legal, economic, labor-related etc. ideologies to civics that would need longer to change and affect diplomacy much more.

    Example of this combination in cultural ideologies:
    Western would symbolise: individualised lifestyle, christian religion, democracy, capitalist economy, ethnicity of european origin
    while
    Eastern would symbolise: less focus on individuality, rely on eastern spirituality, less participation of the individual in politics, ethnicity of east asian origin
     

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