Ideology Names

[Josephias]

Just playing around with the idea of the ideologies in Brave new World and the names given to them. I know they come from the last three social policy trees in vanilla/G+K but, still, while they were fitting as social policy options, I have to nitpick some about the use of the same names as ideologies.

Why? Because - as it was explained in some interview, Ideologies in BNW have not yet the negative/positive connotations we assign them in the modern world. Civ V Brave New World should be - as it was pointed out in some other thread the initial s.XX was - in a "blank" state about ideologies: in each game, we don't know how it work out and which ideology will be the "best". Therefore, names such as "Autocracy", which have quite negative connotations nowadays seem a bit off... and -maybe that's just me- the relationship Order-Communism seems also a bit weak. ¿Why is it more orderly than autocracy, i.e.?

Playing around these ideas, I felt that the French Revolution motto "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité" fitted quite nicely the three ideology paths you might chose. There is three different focuses in here, and we have three ideologies. All words are considered equal in the motto - so that is a clear start ... and one could say the French Revolution and enlightment is also a good starting point to start considering the "birth" of political ideologies. It seemed fitting to me.

Then, we would have "Liberté", Liberty, that would be the Freedom ideology - focused in that each individual should be able to take its own decisions and not be subject to any master.

I'd chose "Egalité" to represent the "communist" branch, renaming order to Equality - focusing the ideology in the fact the state suprresses the differences between citizens by ruling out private propierty to grant the same opportunities to each ones.

Lastly, "Fraternité", Fraternity, might be used for Autocracy, if we underestand it not as "fraternity of all peoples", but more as "kinship" or Brotherhood inside the same civilization. - the ideology will therefore focus in defending the civilization co-citizens, by being prepared to fight "aliens" (not X-COM ones, just other civs with other, different and not familiar, "brother" cultures) and reinforcing the own kin.

So, what would you thing of Freedom, Equality, Brotherhood as ideologies? Would this work (even if it will not be implemented)? or is just a silly idea?

 

[HeraldtheGreat]

I like the idea. Negatively assigning the Ideologies too soon may feel unrealistic, though "order" isn't really an insult. Regardless of what they are specifically called, they should have differant social names from the social policies. (Assuming they won't be merging with the Ideologies.)

This has also raised a question in my head. Would it theoretically be possible to to pick a social policy conflicting with your Ideology (again, assuming they aren't merging.)? Or would they simply be mutually exclusive?

 

[fabituz]

I think it's a good idea. But i guess brotherhood would be better in a fourth "ecology and peacefulness" branch, and autocracy could be in an "identity" branch.

 

[poom3619]

You should name the thread "Ideology name suggestion". The current name implying you are asking our opinion about it or ranting about it which there are a load of either here.

About your suggestion, It is great. I like it too. "Brotherhood" is even more obscure than "Autocracy" (which is good thing). But I feel strange compressing three conflicting ideologies into a motto of a revolution.

 

[pedrobarbosa]

Nice idea!
I have the same impressions. For me, Order and Autocracy have a bad connotation, a malicious one.
Very good idea, because eguality it's not only communism, autocracy it's not only fascism and freedom it's not only democracy.
I dont know about "brotherhood", it dont represent a military state, maybe we can find another name. But the idea is very good.

 

[Arbustro]

I think ideologies should be renamed as well, and I agree with your arguments.

I would just suggest Unity instead of Brotherhood. The whole fascist/autoritharian ideal is all about the unity around the nation, the party and the leader. Also, unity is not negatively connoted as autocracy, and brotherhood suggests brotherhood of all men of all races and nations, and that's misleading.

 

[poom3619]

Nice idea!
I have the same impressions. For me, Order and Autocracy have a bad connotation, a malicious one.
Very good idea, because eguality it's not only communism, autocracy it's not only fascism and freedom it's not only democracy.
I dont know about "brotherhood", it dont represent a military state, maybe we can find another name. But the idea is very good.

Well. the word "Brotherhood" or "Fraternity" is used to stir patriotism or national unity which you would need if you tell people to beat someone's ass. Brotherhood also good to make people support and join about the organization's move. Also, What is one of the best word to describe what people called each other with same opinion? What is the word a man soldier called another in a same force? What is the best word of policy tree that's basically protecting and expanding the "Fatherland" and "Motherland"?


@Arbustro. You take "Brotherhood" too literally

brotherhood (plural brotherhoods)

* The state of being brothers or a brother.
* An association for any purpose, as a society of monks; a fraternity.
* The whole body of persons engaged in the same business, -- especially those of the same profession; as, the legal or medical brotherhood.
* Persons, and, poetically, things, of a like kind.

and there was and would be only few brotherhood that dream to unite the world. It is misleading only in the "Brother" part but there are slightly less brotherhood that exclusive for female and far more that is contains good number of female than the one who aim to unite the world.

 

[pedrobarbosa]

I think that Unity is better.
Brotherhood is one of the aspects, like nationalism. Both could be a trait, but not the name.

 

[mitsho]

Unity is better than Brotherhood because the latter leaves out all the Sisters. I formulated that a bit on the cheeky side but Gender Representation is important. I'd also say Unity catches the term well enough.

Otherwise I fully support the idea. I never understood the Order = Socialism thing anyways.

 

[Josephias]

Hey, thanks for the answers, glad you liked the idea that names could be made more feeling you are pursuing something still to be defined instead of a final idea on how it got at the end. Regarding what has been comented up to now...

About mixing the three in FR motto... well, that was the fun point I found... that you could find a common start point for all three (mainly, the end of the 'old regime' "divine hierarchy" ideology), yet you get three very different views of the world out of it.

I like Unity as well, but I'd bring the points already given to defend the selection of Brotherhood - focus in organization, in commonality of opinions, in fatherland, and even in tribe/kin/(race). I avoided fraternity because this is the one more used (i think) when you consider all people, while brotherhood seems to focus more in your peers. And unity may have the same problem (unity of ours, or unity of all?).. but yes, it is good also!.

Maybe "community" instead of just unity, focusing in unity of those common? -- altough that slides down quite near of communism (that is more in the order/equity line) - anyway, that's further proof that opposities are actually touching, and that some communist regimes became quite autocratic, too.