Goober
Turning Right ...
Good answer Vancouver2010, I am not as crazy as everyone thinks (or knows) I am then. And I may be awake.
If Canada became a Civ, what traits and UU would it have?
- Thread starter Lumin
- Start date
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
The infantry used during the Revolutionary War obviously Realgoober.
So Austria is included in Conquests? I didn't see it on the Conquests website. I'm getting Conquests in a couple of days(I hope) and it would please me to no end to find out they included them.
So Austria is included in Conquests? I didn't see it on the Conquests website. I'm getting Conquests in a couple of days(I hope) and it would please me to no end to find out they included them.
Goober
Turning Right ...
Oh, come on, I was so sure that you meant the ICBM. Oh well.
Apparently Austria is included, but you need to substitute it for another Civ. There is a thread somewhere in the Conquests Forum.
Artofcybermars
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2003
- Messages
- 32
"Canada and the USA can not be climatically similar. ALL of Canada's metropolitan centres are north of the 49th. parallel, whereas ALL of the USA's major metropolitan centers are south of the 49th. (with the exception of Anchorage and Juneau, but neither are all that major!).
There isn't that much tundra, ice, and permafrost in the USA. I think you might have missed the Territories and the more northern halves of the Provinces."
Actually you are overemphasising the the impact of the 49th paralell sure we have vast areas of tundra but almost no population in those areas. 85% (or more) of Canada population is within 125 miles of the U.S border. I would take Canadian winters in the west (no snow here) over those in say Wisconsin or Minnesota any year. And of course they is that quirk of geograohy which has Detroit North of Windsor. Course windsor isn't the size of Detroit but it's isn't an village either. point is the Northeast U.S has an significant portion of the US population with an climate similar to that enjoyed by Canada. so we are closer in climate than you may think. You just enjoy an wider range.
As per the original thread concept IF there was an Civiii Canadian entry. my votes would be Agricultural and Industrious. Reasoning is simple Although we may not not have the gross volume output of the U.S. Our agricultural productivity on an per captia basis rivals that of any nation. Many food grains varieties used around the world were developed in Canada to deal with our slightly shorter growing season and have proven their worth elsewhere including the U.S. Industrious because although we have great amounts of resources they exist in our more inhospitable areas which requires great effort and industry of the part of the people to develop.
U.U.? Think the Infantry unit discussed earlier is the best bet. Arvo Arrow was an great plane shot down by politics but then in the Game it would be as useless as the F15 is which is ironic because many analysts have said it would have outperformed all fighters up to the F15e model which had the 90's electronic avinonics package. Not bad for an early 60's fighter. But since it never had an chance to prove itself it can't really be an valid choice.
Leader J.A. Macdonald. very colorful and he had the vision of an coast to coast nation when others wanted to remain in the Eastern part of the continent
There isn't that much tundra, ice, and permafrost in the USA. I think you might have missed the Territories and the more northern halves of the Provinces."
Actually you are overemphasising the the impact of the 49th paralell sure we have vast areas of tundra but almost no population in those areas. 85% (or more) of Canada population is within 125 miles of the U.S border. I would take Canadian winters in the west (no snow here) over those in say Wisconsin or Minnesota any year. And of course they is that quirk of geograohy which has Detroit North of Windsor. Course windsor isn't the size of Detroit but it's isn't an village either. point is the Northeast U.S has an significant portion of the US population with an climate similar to that enjoyed by Canada. so we are closer in climate than you may think. You just enjoy an wider range.
As per the original thread concept IF there was an Civiii Canadian entry. my votes would be Agricultural and Industrious. Reasoning is simple Although we may not not have the gross volume output of the U.S. Our agricultural productivity on an per captia basis rivals that of any nation. Many food grains varieties used around the world were developed in Canada to deal with our slightly shorter growing season and have proven their worth elsewhere including the U.S. Industrious because although we have great amounts of resources they exist in our more inhospitable areas which requires great effort and industry of the part of the people to develop.
U.U.? Think the Infantry unit discussed earlier is the best bet. Arvo Arrow was an great plane shot down by politics but then in the Game it would be as useless as the F15 is which is ironic because many analysts have said it would have outperformed all fighters up to the F15e model which had the 90's electronic avinonics package. Not bad for an early 60's fighter. But since it never had an chance to prove itself it can't really be an valid choice.
Leader J.A. Macdonald. very colorful and he had the vision of an coast to coast nation when others wanted to remain in the Eastern part of the continent
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
I suppose both could end up in the game RG(Do yo mind if I call you by your inituals?)
I do agree, Industrious and Agricultural are both good traits for Canada as a civ.
Now, all we need to do is deside who the leader should be, and get a good leader head and unique unit ready, and we've got ourselves a new civ. The question is, who to replace..I'd say the sumerians, since Mesopatamian is crowded enough with Persia, the Hittites, the Ottomans and the Arabs hanging around.
I do agree, Industrious and Agricultural are both good traits for Canada as a civ.
Now, all we need to do is deside who the leader should be, and get a good leader head and unique unit ready, and we've got ourselves a new civ. The question is, who to replace..I'd say the sumerians, since Mesopatamian is crowded enough with Persia, the Hittites, the Ottomans and the Arabs hanging around.
I don't think it's me that is overemphasising the 49th. parallel. It's true most of Canada's population is along the 49th.
It is not true that most of the US population is along the 49th.
While Canada shares climatic similarties with the US along the 49th, the rockies, the praries, and the coastlines, it is not true that Canada also shares climatic similarities with Southern California, Texas, Arizona, Florida.
It would be more correct to say the majority of Canada's population shares similar climatic conditions to the northern portion of the American population. The entirety of the two country's geography and population to climatic conditions are not really that similar.
But they were military units, and they have been and are much more than a simple police force.
In the early days the NWMP were responsible not only for law and order (a policing function) in the west, but also for asserting Canadian sovereignty (a military function). In the African war, members of the RCMP served in Canada's military. In WWI, the RCMP deployed 2 cavalry squadrons overseas.
The modern RCMP has served in the capacity (some in American terms):
Search and Rescue. Though this is currently being phased out as it is expensive to have RCMP officers serve in capacities such as pilots or scuba divers when civilians can do the work.
FBI and ATF. One arm of the RCMP, is a federal police force responsible for dealing in an area regarded as 'federal law', narcotics, smuggling, poaching, firearms, etc.
CIA. Until very modern history, the RCMP was also Canada's intelligence service. At the creation of CSIS, a number of RCMP intelligence officers left their jobs to join CSIS.
Secret Service. It is the federal branch of the RCMP that provides body guards for the Prime Minister, visiting heads of state, and the enforcement of economic laws such as conterfeiting.
State Troopers. The RCMP represent the provincial/state policing force for a number of provinces.
Peacekeepers. The RCMP routinely assigns volunteer officers to basic training in Canada's army followed with a peacekeeping assignment.
The RCMP has played many roles throughout Canada's history, and their officers today continue to serve many roles in out outside Canada. The RCMP has never been a simple police force.
Park Ranger
Wonder hog
Actually, most of our population lives south of the 49th. The 49th is the border only west of the Great Lakes.
But you are right in saying that the geographic and climatic similarities are limited. We have nothing like Florida (though I hear it's overun with Canadians this time of year...beware of culture flips!
). But most Canadian regions have a US homologue: Atlantic Canada shares much with New England, Alberta can sometimes feel like the midwest, and Vancouver shares a lot with Seattle. And Anyone within 100 km of the Great Lakes on either side of the border knows to expect heavy snow this time of year...sorry these are generalizations not meant to encourage stereotyping just an interesting thought.As much as many people overestimate geographic/climatic, though, I feel many people understimate the cultural ones. Again, I must stress the French influence - and I don't just mean Quebec - which is very strong and NOT analogous to the French influences in the Southern US.
Back on topic: I continue to resist the mountie-as-UU idea. They are a police force. The Candian troops that went overseas in WWI and II were military units that fought and distinguished themselves in war. Overlooking this in favour of the mountie caters to pop-culture iconography and not historical reality. And those soldiers are not all-but-forgotten, indeed here in Atlantic Canada we don't just wear poppies on Rememberance Day (Nov 11, anniverssary of the end of WW1), we often remember very specific individuals who never came home from Europe.
y in gods name whold thay add canada in over nations that are sooo much more deserveing of being in the game?!?!?!? hears a list i just came up with of the top of my head
1, austra as a full civ, not just a bonus
2, assyria
3, indus river valy civ,
4.numidia
5. that civ thats capital was timbucto(spelling)
6.ethiopia
7.thiland/siam
8.midevil poland
9.denmark
10.kingdom of isreal
just a short list
1, austra as a full civ, not just a bonus
2, assyria
3, indus river valy civ,
4.numidia
5. that civ thats capital was timbucto(spelling)
6.ethiopia
7.thiland/siam
8.midevil poland
9.denmark
10.kingdom of isreal
just a short list
CrazyMrLeo
Wild Child
I agree. All of these countries should be added. However, we have NO room whatsoever, so the point of "who's more deserving" is moot. My point is that there's nothing that makes Canada UNDESERVING.
CrazyMrLeo
Wild Child
By what standards is Canada not a civ? It applies to three of your four arbitrary qualifications, so I don't see what else has to happen.
SuperBeaverInc.
Groucho
Vietcong, quit bashing a country you know absolutely nothing about.
Canadian diplomats helped broker the peace deal during the Suez Crisis. Had this not happened, the world possibly could have gone into a nuclear war. In addition, they helped liberate much of France, Belgium, and Holland from Nazi control during the Second World War
Have you ever even seen a map of Canada before? Canada has the second greatest land mass in the world, behind only Russia. In addition, they are members of the Commonwealth. While they are not an empire, they don't need to be one to qualify as a civ. After all, America doesn't qualify as an empire.
The Maple Leaf, hockey, donuts, etc. Canadians wear maple leafs badges on their backpacks all throughout the world and they are recognized for it. Canada is one of the top nations in the world at hockey. Hockey is a major thing here in Canada, especially compared to the U.S. We have our own nation wide donut shops. They are a Canadian icon
At the end of World War II, the Canadian military numbered 750,000 land troops, 250,000(100 squadrons0 were in the airforce, and the Canadian navy had roughly 450 battle ready ships, the third largest navy in the world. Again, they helped liberate Nazi controlled France and Belgium. In World War I, Canadians captured many fortresses that British and French forces could not. Vimy Ridge, Passchendaele, Ypres, etc.
So Vietcong, stop being a basher and posting like an idiot. At least know something about it before you say that they are undeserving.
Canadian diplomats helped broker the peace deal during the Suez Crisis. Had this not happened, the world possibly could have gone into a nuclear war. In addition, they helped liberate much of France, Belgium, and Holland from Nazi control during the Second World War
Have you ever even seen a map of Canada before? Canada has the second greatest land mass in the world, behind only Russia. In addition, they are members of the Commonwealth. While they are not an empire, they don't need to be one to qualify as a civ. After all, America doesn't qualify as an empire.
The Maple Leaf, hockey, donuts, etc. Canadians wear maple leafs badges on their backpacks all throughout the world and they are recognized for it. Canada is one of the top nations in the world at hockey. Hockey is a major thing here in Canada, especially compared to the U.S. We have our own nation wide donut shops. They are a Canadian icon
At the end of World War II, the Canadian military numbered 750,000 land troops, 250,000(100 squadrons0 were in the airforce, and the Canadian navy had roughly 450 battle ready ships, the third largest navy in the world. Again, they helped liberate Nazi controlled France and Belgium. In World War I, Canadians captured many fortresses that British and French forces could not. Vimy Ridge, Passchendaele, Ypres, etc.
So Vietcong, stop being a basher and posting like an idiot. At least know something about it before you say that they are undeserving.
CrazyMrLeo
Wild Child
"America doesn't qualify as an empire."
Eh. It's debatable.
Eh. It's debatable.
SuperBeaverInc.
Groucho
Well they have never had an emperor, but they were pretty imperialistic after the Spanish-American War when they had control of Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Phillipines.
BorgeoisBuffoon
Local Idiot
How amusing that several of those civs are pretty much represented by civs in the game already, and that you can't even remember one of the names of the civs you're proposing. IMO only Siam and Ethiopia would be a truly worthy addition.
I don't think Canada's historically important enough for a civ, but with the list you're going at, it's just as qualified if not more so than some of the places you're proposing. I myself would certainly play Canada.
Oh, try to give us REASONS on how Canada would suck to be a civ, too.
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
Canada is too hysterically impotent! So there.
Vancouver 2010
Getting Paid to Code
Can we please get back on-topic instead of bashing and counterbashing everyone's ideas?
Goober
Turning Right ...
The whole point of this thread is IF Canada were to be added as a Civ, what UU/traits would it have? We are NOT here to debate whether or not Canada DESERVES to be added as a Civ, virtually EVERY nation in the whole bloody world deserves that. That said, I think we have pretty much reached a consensus (to get back on topic.)
IF Canada were to become a Civ, it would be Agricultural/Industrious (with solid reasons behind both.), have the Mountie (RCMP to be exact) as its UU, either Trudeau/Pearson/MacDonald as its Leader (I think trudeau, just because he is very well known). The list of cities is fairly ovious, a great list was posted on the second page i believe.
Other Ideas being kicked around:
Traits: Expansionist or Commercial (also Tolerant, Multicultural, Diplomatic)
UU: Infantry that served in WW 1/2, or the Avro Arrow fighter jet. Another idea that I just got would be the LAV, Light Armored Vehicle that Canada is getting to replace its WW2 era Tanks.
Have a North American Civ, that would combine Canada, the States, and Mexico.
IF Canada were to become a Civ, it would be Agricultural/Industrious (with solid reasons behind both.), have the Mountie (RCMP to be exact) as its UU, either Trudeau/Pearson/MacDonald as its Leader (I think trudeau, just because he is very well known). The list of cities is fairly ovious, a great list was posted on the second page i believe.
Other Ideas being kicked around:
Traits: Expansionist or Commercial (also Tolerant, Multicultural, Diplomatic)
UU: Infantry that served in WW 1/2, or the Avro Arrow fighter jet. Another idea that I just got would be the LAV, Light Armored Vehicle that Canada is getting to replace its WW2 era Tanks.
Have a North American Civ, that would combine Canada, the States, and Mexico.
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
Well, to be serious for a change:
I think a problem many people have with defining traits and a UU for Canada is unavoidably linked to the question of whether Canada should be considered a "Civilization". And in that sense the question is material to this thread - i.e. does Canada have a distinct enough identity as a Civilization for these questions to have clear answers?
In case it hasn't been clear in my prior posts in this thread, I, although Canadian, find it difficult to take the question of Canada as a Civilization seriously. Canada is too young. As a distinct nation it has existed for less than 150 years. Part of it (hi Park Ranger!) joined recently enough (1949) that many people born there and alive today were not born Canadian.
Canada is a great nation, for many reasons including those already cited in this thread. But I think that how it is remembered by history 500 years from now (a footnote? a nation with a distinct and lasting impact on the world?) depends more on what we have yet to do than on what we have already done. And those things will define our traits and UU in the sense of this game. It is too early for us to define them now.
I think a problem many people have with defining traits and a UU for Canada is unavoidably linked to the question of whether Canada should be considered a "Civilization". And in that sense the question is material to this thread - i.e. does Canada have a distinct enough identity as a Civilization for these questions to have clear answers?
In case it hasn't been clear in my prior posts in this thread, I, although Canadian, find it difficult to take the question of Canada as a Civilization seriously. Canada is too young. As a distinct nation it has existed for less than 150 years. Part of it (hi Park Ranger!) joined recently enough (1949) that many people born there and alive today were not born Canadian.
Canada is a great nation, for many reasons including those already cited in this thread. But I think that how it is remembered by history 500 years from now (a footnote? a nation with a distinct and lasting impact on the world?) depends more on what we have yet to do than on what we have already done. And those things will define our traits and UU in the sense of this game. It is too early for us to define them now.
